[Saphire NB8C]

im pretty new to this forum although i have been on miata.net for a few years, but from the looks of it, i think i will enjoy this forum much more than m.net. i was just looking for suggestions on a autox setup for the 99 miata. i checked out the m.net garage and compared a couple setups of "spirited" or "aggressive" setups, but mainly the front toe numbers contradict each other...here is the comparison of both:

Front
Toe: one says to use 1/16"-1/8" toe OUT, another says to use 1/32" toe IN
Caster: Max, or 5-6 degrees
Camber: -1.1, or -1.2

Rear
Toe: 1/16"-1/8" or 0 toe in, or 1/32" toe in
Camber: -.6 to -.8, -1.75

after getting the alignment, i then have to set up the dampening of the shocks. god this is so confusing when trying to grasp the concepts! :evil:

 

[Rob]

set front and rear toe to 0

front camber at -2 and rear at -1.5 or -2

caster a bit more + than stock

enjoy

before they all come, im sure most repies will differ. People all like different settings, so i suggest this to start and then change one thing at a time until you get it how you feel happy

 

[JDMAflac]

Rob: How hard does that effect the tires thats daily driven?

 

[Braineack]

I run this:

Front:
Caster: Maximum
Camber: -1.5°
Toe out 1/16" per side

Rear:
Camber: -2°
Toe in 1/16" per side

Nice all around aggressive setup, no uneven tire wear, great turn-in with toe-out in front. But to each his own.

 

[peteberta]

Toe is going to effect tire wear more than camber will, well if you just drive around with a lot of camber yes you will wear out the inside shoulder faster than the rest of the tire but looks like you do an occasional autocross which does a pretty good job of evening out tire wear from camber.

Toe settings will depend on your driving interest. Rob's recommendation for 0 toe is a good all around setting. If you do more autocross you will want a little more toe out in the front for crisper turn-in. If you do more track days you may want a little more toe in for high speed stability.

If you like the rear end a little loose you can do slight toe out in the rear or toe in to keep it stable.

Definitely max out your caster if you're planning on autocrossing. Positive caster adds dynamic camber. Dynamic camber is the rate in which the wheels gain negative camber as they are turned.

There is a really definition of terms on whitelines website. http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqsusp01.htm

Like Rob says, start with his setting which I would agree with and keep and eye on your wear, if you find the inside of the tire wearing more that the outside you can go with less camber. This is really more for the rear as lateral grip vs. acceleration is going to vary based on camber.

 

[Matt [exz3owner]]

car set up is a complicated science, and can be different for every set up. Its why race teams pay set up engineers big bucks to help them get it right.

Camber will definately depend on your spring rates and sway bars and tire choices.

Toe will depend on these things too, but is a little more driving style and track config dependant. toe out in the front makes a car turn in better and can improve higher ultimate grip. But at high speed, it makes the car "nervous" and darty.

Toe out in the rear has never been something I recommend. It makes the car snap into oversteer. Toe in in the rear makes for an easier to drive, more predictable car, but induces understeer. Keep in mind that under acceleration, miatas will toe out just a little under the load.

lots of set ups can be fast. And everyone thinks thiers is better. I personally run significantly more camber in the front than I do the rear. And that is the reverse of a lot of people here. But I'm pretty confidant my set up is optimized for my car...

matt

 

[urban]

listen to Matt, those are some good points.
i just went to Hiro',s to have an aligment not that long ago. normally i would request my settings, but i asked Koji to hook me up with an aggressive TimeAttack/Drift setup.
this is what he gave me.
front
caster: 4.12*
camber: 3.12*--
toe: 0*
rear
camber: 2.36*--
toe: .18*

this is far more aggressive than i thought , and i normally wouldnt put more camber in front , but ive changed my outlook on aligment settings.
now i have much more bite on turn in , and mid corner.

 

[Saphire NB8C]

i think ive come to the conclusion based on this board and the autox forum of my area and this seems reasonable for "spirited" daily driving :mrgreen: and autox.

Front - Toe - 0 or 1/16 out
Caster - Max I believe its 6.4 degrees
Camber - -2

Rear - Toe - 1/16 in
Camber - -1.5


rob: are u the same rob from roadsterdrift or am i on crack? #-o

edit: nevermind i checked all over and saw it in your sig haha

 

[Rob]

i think ive come to the conclusion based on this board and the autox forum of my area and this seems reasonable for "spirited" daily driving :mrgreen: and autox.

Front - Toe - 0 or 1/16 out
Caster - Max I believe its 6.4 degrees
Camber - -2

Rear - Toe - 1/16 in
Camber - -1.5


rob: are u the same rob from roadsterdrift or am i on crack? #-o

edit: nevermind i checked all over and saw it in your sig haha

yea thats me

and i have -2ish front camber with +8 caster

 

[DRFT MX5]

I'll be honest I'm suprised at so much camber in front, and more in front than rear...

I ran this w/o a front sway bar...
Front
-1.5 Camber
+4.5 Caster
0 Toe

Rear
-1.9 Camber
0 Toe

I enjoyed the car, but felt it was lacking. I recently put the 1.25" Racing Beat front bar on and I want to refresh my alignment settings for the Winter Autocross season...

I do daily drive the car on RT-615's (also my track tires until Tax season...)

I'm running Tein Flex w/ stock rates right now 7kF/6kR, the car is open dif...

Ok now that you have all the info... why run more camber in front? I always seem to have the probelm w/ rear traction because of the open dif, will pulling that camber out of the rear and putting it up front actually help it bite more?

All the courses for the Winter are very short technical courses... Any feedback would be appreciated! (Man and I thought I knew what I was doing lol...)

I was very happy w/ my set up on Alignmet until the sway bar went on, now its threw me for a loop the set up feels lacking now...

 

[clshrckr]

mine is

front
----------
camber -2.0
toe 0
caster +6.7

rear
------------
camber -2.7
toe 0

maybe sticky this?

 

[white91base]

If you're familiar with m.net's alignments, I've got the Icehawk one. That's the toe out you first mentioned and I really like it. I noticed the difference just leaving the parking lot of the alignment shop who did it for me.

 

[boogie van]

Rob the PO of my car had it aligned to settings pretty much identical to what you suggested, except the caster is at 2.0* or 2.2*. this is kind of annoying, for example if I steer to about halfway to full lock, instead of the wheel wanting to snap back to center, it tries to snap to full lock, in forward or reverse. I was discussing this with Icehawk a few months back and I believe he said this is probably because of my caster. It would be great if you guys could also chime in on this if you know anything. Im a bit of a suspension tuning noob.

Ive thought about a realignment to Icehawk's specs, but to be honest I really like the way the car feels aside from that alleged caster issue.

I do have to rotate tires, as I noticed my old set was wearing the insides of the front tires, and the rear on the outer edges.



So far I have only played with the stiffness of the koni shocks, and tire pressures. I do have adjustable sways on the softest settings, I dont think Ill get to messing with those until I get some adjustable endlinks.

 

[anti-FWD]

for grip driving purposes, why should there be more camber in the front than the rear?

 

[Rob]

when the car turns, the suspention cambers in, and the car rolls over into the full contact patch.

 

[Roadster Dave]

I really agree with the more camber in the front idea. I got icehawks alignment on stock suspension and it still eats away at the outside edges of my front tires while the rear tires are fine. And it pushes a bit. Also, it just makes sense because the front of the car is a little heavier, especially when you strip the trunk out, so you would want more camber on that end. Plus, it just kind of makes sense for a rear wheel drive car to have more camber in the front. That is how all the race cars i have seen are, granted some, like BMWs have struts so that changes things a bit.

I do have a question though. I would imagine you would need less camber with a stiffer suspension because of less roll, etc. How true is this statement?

 

[renesisdrms]

@ Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:00 am]car set up is a complicated science, and can be different for every set up. Its why race teams pay set up engineers big bucks to help them get it right.

Camber will definately depend on your spring rates and sway bars and tire choices.

Toe will depend on these things too, but is a little more driving style and track config dependant. toe out in the front makes a car turn in better and can improve higher ultimate grip. But at high speed, it makes the car "nervous" and darty.

Toe out in the rear has never been something I recommend. It makes the car snap into oversteer. Toe in in the rear makes for an easier to drive, more predictable car, but induces understeer. Keep in mind that under acceleration, miatas will toe out just a little under the load.

lots of set ups can be fast. And everyone thinks thiers is better. I personally run significantly more camber in the front than I do the rear. And that is the reverse of a lot of people here. But I'm pretty confidant my set up is optimized for my car...

matt

 

[renesisdrms]

oops, my bad matt.
i wanted to question u. and what i figure is that u run more neg camber than rear. is this due to a preferable track setting that is used to get faster turn-ins...mostly advantageous in tight lower spped turns under braking? the rear being less camber due to the shifted weight under brake turn-in for still some decent grip and contact patch?
i assume this set-up is most useful in courses with tight turns, and would have slight give in to under on the front tires on the more consistent high speed turns.

i'm just wondering if i'm close in the use of ur set-up...or was i a bit more far off?

 

[dlaziepnoy]

what if you are running on 15x8 0 offset sportmax 002? what alignment specs would good for me?

 

[urban]

what if you are running on 15x8 0 offset sportmax 002? what alignment specs would good for me?

those are the wheels i had when i asked the shop to set my alingment.
specs are a few post up.

i am running a 196/45/15 up front.

not the best for tire wear in daily commute.

handles great