[gwilo]

This summer I want to upgrade my brake set up on my ?92 which is used on street only (no track)

I currently run PowerSlot Rotors with Hawk HPS pads. I like the set up and it does work fine.

But, now here is the ?problem?, the car is going through a slight transformation a GT2560 turbo (BEGi S3 @ 12 psi) is going in so I will want a bit more braking power.

I want to be able to get out of trouble as fast as I can get into it. :twisted:

What I know of products available are

Upgrade to:

Mazda Sport Package (MazdaSpeed) brakes with stock rotors/pads. (Can obtain used parts) with braided lines

Mazda package above with PowerSlot / Hawk HPS. (Yes I like slotted rotors)

Goodwin Brake package V 3 or V 4 (AKA the FM Kit) (Wilwood Dynalite)

Chikara Big Brake Kit 2006

Maruha Big Brake Kit

What else are my options?

What do other people run on higher HP Roadsters?

What do they use outside of North America?

What is the JDM solution and who brings it in?


Let?s discuss.

Oh by the way the rims that I will be running are 949 Racing 6UL 15 x 8 & Konig Heliums 15 x 6.5 (winters)

 

[gwilo]

So no opinions on brakes ???

 

[PYTHON]

try some hawk pads and ss lines if thats not enough go with a FD brake set up.

 

[Savington]

try some hawk pads and ss lines if thats not enough go with a FD brake set up.

Did you even read his post? He already has Hawk pads.

IMO, if you are going to do the brakes, DO them. Goodwin's 4-wheel BBK is the only thing I'd consider. Lighter than stock with big rotors and big calipers. IMO, you won't need that much power, though, so step from the HPS to the HP+, do good fluid, replace your rotors (don't pay for Powerslots again, they're useless, just do NAPAs), and do lines.

On the flip side, you need to ask yourself WHY you need more brakes. Bigger brakes do not mean you get more braking power. If you can lock up all 4 tires with your current brakes, and you can, more power is useless. Use stickier tires. If you are getting brake FADE, then better fluid and finally larger brakes will help.

 

[frictionfighter]

rotora mini 4pot
project mu mini 4pot
endless mini 6pot, might be 4 i dont remember.
those are options if you are filthy rich and want to spend 3gs on brakes.
id do some wilwood dynalites and some project mu slotted rotors.

 

[gwilo]

Thanks for the input.

The reason for bigger brakes is the power increase have to balance things out.

This weekend I will get the pricing on the MSM brakes with SS lines and also take to the shop about a Willwood kit.

The web site of the shop is www.eunos.ca

 

[spike]

John I have the Chikara BBK and you are welcome to come over and check the kit out,if that helps with your decision.

BTW the picture of the Chikara BBK on the Eunos.ca website,that is my BBK,I took a picture of my kit and gave the picture to Pete to use on the website.

 

[ExHondaMan]

The only reasons you should be considering bigger brakes is because you are going with bigger rims/ stickier tires, you track the car alot, or you anticipate racing from stoplight to stoplight then slamming on the brakes everywhere you go. Remember, tires stop the car and people that get "bigger brakes" are actually getting bigger rotors, which allow for more thermal dissipation, which means less fade. As savington noted,if you can lock up the brakes now, it should be fine, especially if the car won't see the track. If you want the big brakes for aesthetics, then, yes, it will fill out your new rims very nicely. And if it was me, I'd get brian's kit. I've seen it in person, and it's nicely done. Plus Brian tracks it also.

 

[belacyrf]

You dont need to upgrade your brakes to stop in emergency situations. When it comes to one time stopping, the ONLY thing that matters is the Coefficient of Friction and the operating temps of the pad.

So get a pad that works best for cooler temps (since your in Canada) with a high coefficient of friction. I like the Hawk HP Plus pads however these will create a bit more dust and could squeek every now and then.

Unfortunately you have to choose between performance and comfort. A good performance pad will dust, and could squeel a bit. A long life pad might dust less and will be quiet, but you will be sacrificing overall performance.

In the end, just go with any pad you like, since your really only looking for 1 time stopping it's not like your going to build a ton of heat into the brake pad or rotor, so thermal capacity isn't a huge concern for you. Just buy a quality pad that will fit your needs (noice, dust, performance) and call it a day

 

[gwilo]

ExHondaMan , one question who is Brian.

Belacyrf, I use the Hawk HPS pads now and the brake dust and little bit of noise does not bother me. A little more from HP Plus would be ok.

The main reason for an upgrade is the '92 brakes are on the small size. A simple upgrade to the '94 (1. 8 ) would be an improvement.

 

[AKADriver]

IMO - and you can add this on to the stack of pointless opinions, but here goes - braided brake lines aren't worth it.

The most often quoted reason to get them is the reduction in stretch. Second is an increase in durability. Third - and the only reason I'd buy them - is to adapt a caliper to your car that's plumbed differenty than your OEM brakes. I also see people suggest them as a nebulous "upgrade" when someone doesn't want to spend money on the big brake kit that they NEED to support their power lust. I'm ignoring this because it's obviously a pointless application.

Pro race teams use them because their entire brake systems are using aerospace fittings. Their brake lines are not the "DOT approved" crimp fitting type. The braided teflon line is well-matched for this application. Once you add the "DOT approved" crimp fitting that most braided lines have, durability goes out the window. The only reason they have that fancy stainless braided shielding is the Teflon core is FRAGILE, much more so than rubber.

So we get to the stretchiness. Yep, that's absolutely true. But I'll say this: the weakest link in terms of feel for the stock Roadster brakes (any version) is the sliding caliper. Trying to firm up the (IMO already firm enough) stock brakes with braided lines is like pissing on a forest fire.

I'll leave this little anecdote: not one person who has challenged me with how much better their brakes felt after an upgrade to braided lines didn't also have old, probably water-logged brake fluid before the "upgrade".

 

[gwilo]

I also see people suggest them as a nebulous "upgrade" when someone doesn't want to spend money on the big brake kit that they NEED to support their power lust. I'm ignoring this because it's obviously a pointless application....

Well as you can see I am willing to spend the money on my "Power Lust" but just do not want to waste money.

The braking I am looking for is enough (or a little more) to handle 200 to 230 RHP for street use (and mountain roads).

Unlike the other ongoing thread about "Cheap slotted and drilled brakes." I am willing to spend some money in this department.

Opinions welcome.

 

[belacyrf]

ExHondaMan , one question who is Brian.

Belacyrf, I use the Hawk HPS pads now and the brake dust and little bit of noise does not bother me. A little more from HP Plus would be ok.

The main reason for an upgrade is the '92 brakes are on the small size. A simple upgrade to the '94 (1. 8 ) would be an improvement.

Gwilo, just dont expect any improved stopping from larger brakes vs better pads. The only way to improve stopping is increase clamping pressure, bigger pad (increase swept area), or better pad. But larger rotors with the same caliper and same pad wont give you anything.

You can try the porterfield R4S. IMO that's a slight step up over the HPS, or you can move to the Hawk Blue's. Those stop really well but they have a higher temp range then the HPS.

 

[gwilo]

I agree with you Belacyrf, but the simplest route for more contact area is an upgrade.

The goal is to increase the surface contact area and improve the caliper.

I will most likely upgrade next winter to the "Sport Brake" calipers and rotors which will cover increased clamping and surface area (I believe) then do more research into what pads meet my driving style.

Porterfield's & Hawk's are on the list for pads.
What rotors (discs) do you recommend? I know the Mazda's are not bad but are a little heavy.

As the car is only driven April to October I do not have to worry about Canadian winters.

Correct me if I an wrong but going with the Mazda Sport brakes would give me a better selection of pads & rotors to use than one of the BBK from Goodwin / FM to name a few?

Also this summer I will watch how the current brakes work / hold up.

ExHondaMan,

There will be an upgrade in wheels as well 15 x 8 with Hankook's RS-2 (225 - 45)

 

[belacyrf]

Well I'm picking up my Goodwin BBK (the upgraded Version 4) this friday. I'm also trying to find a way to pick up Emilio's 15x8 w/ the 225's this week as well. I still have my 16x8 Advans on order but since it will be 3 or 4 months till they show, I need wheels now.

I'll try to give some feedback of the brake upgrades when I get them, but i believe your right, with Wilwood calipers I think you use wilwood pads, but they have a TON of options for pads and the change couldnt' be easier.

 

[gwilo]

I am, as you can tell am getting the 6UL rims/tires.

Also let me know what you think of the Goodwin kit.

 

[Savington]

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you want bigger brakes? "To balance the power" and "To upgrade from the 1.6 brakes" are both non-answers. Spec Miata guys actually "downgrade" their brakes to 1.6 setups to save weight. 1.8 brakes with high quality pads and good fluid will probably get you where you need to be. I say you do pads, rotors, and fluid in your current brakes, and if you go to the track and fade them, then consider upgrading.

However, after reading your original post, you don't need to upgrade your brakes. You already have Hawk HPS pads. If you feel you need more, do HP+ pads. Bigger brakes DO NOT MEAN more braking force. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[gwilo]

Why else would I upgrade.

The 1.6 brakes are small. Larger rotors will dissipate heat better and give a larger surface area for larger pads.

If I could upgrade to a multi piston caliper on the 1.6 I would consider it.

The stock 1.8 brakes are an option.

The sport brakes are an option.(I can get a set for a good price)

A BBK kit is an option.(not my favorite)

I just do not want to waste money but get the proper set up.

When I purchased the car (used) it had cheap no name rotors and pads and upgraded to Hawk HPS and PowerSlot rotors and noticed a vast improvement. Now I want to take it to the next step.

If you can offer an option on rotors that would be helpful as for pads I will be looking into what Hawk and Porterfield's.

What the "Spec" guys do is none of my concern they is on a track not the street or in my case mountain roads. When they run out of brakes (fade) they hit some tires or up a run off, I have to worry about cliffs.

 

[Dorsai]

Tire Rack has the Brembo rotors. Basic NA's are $21/22 each. If you go up to their gold slotted or drilled its $150 a pair. Personally, I think spending a little more for higher quality rotors is a good investment. I'd rather have my dollars in running gear than cosmetics. I like the Porterfield R4S for street use.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results.jsp?autoMake=Mazda&autoModel=Miata&autoYear=1992&autoModClar=

 

[belacyrf]

Why else would I upgrade.

The 1.6 brakes are small. Larger rotors will dissipate heat better and give a larger surface area for larger pads.

If I could upgrade to a multi piston caliper on the 1.6 I would consider it.

The stock 1.8 brakes are an option.

The sport brakes are an option.(I can get a set for a good price)

A BBK kit is an option.(not my favorite)

I just do not want to waste money but get the proper set up.

When I purchased the car (used) it had cheap no name rotors and pads and upgraded to Hawk HPS and PowerSlot rotors and noticed a vast improvement. Now I want to take it to the next step.

If you can offer an option on rotors that would be helpful as for pads I will be looking into what Hawk and Porterfield's.

What the "Spec" guys do is none of my concern they is on a track not the street or in my case mountain roads. When they run out of brakes (fade) they hit some tires or up a run off, I have to worry about cliffs.

IMO you dont need a reason to upgrade, do what you like.
However some things you've been saying are a bit conflicting.
1st, you say this is for street driving and mountain driving. For those two scenario's you dont need bigger rotor's as you're not putting enough heat into them anyways.

The previous statement that spec guys "downgrade" their rotors, seems a bit off to me, and I would wager it's not entirely accurate. They probably downgrade their rotors on low braking, high speed tracks (for these tracks you dont need much brake for 100hp lightweight cars) They upgrade their rotors for high braking tracks.

It sounds like you just want nicer "looking" rotors and to have quality stopping as well.
In that case, get what you want and stick with the Hawk HPS or move to the Blue's if you want to try something more agressive. But the only way to increase swept area is a caliper change. I personally dont know of any other caliper changes than those of a BBK (but then again I'm still new to the miata community).

Maybe get some slotted rotors with new pads and call it a day.