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Budget Bilstein Ballers

251K views 2K replies 121 participants last post by  concealer404 
#1 · (Edited)
UPDATE:

Since apparently we're children here, i need to set some ground rules for this thread.

DO: Post reviews of your setup, other setups, opinions on setups, experiences, anecdotes. Feel free to do these things by any means necessary. I don't care if there's a ton of profanity, if you compare a setup to the amount of times Uranus gets pounded by large objects at a high rate of speed, i don't care if you feel like saying your ebay sleeves and springs on your 200k worn out NA bilsteins is better than Xidas. That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. You may post your opinion on any setup being discussed, any ad copy being discussed, and you may compare your setup to anything you like.

DON'T: Personal attacks.

Example: "This setup gobbles huge bags of ****," not "You/he/she gobbles huge bags of ****."

Also DON'T: Post in this thread if you have no experience with budget bilstein setups, don't plan on learning about them, and just want to argue about things that you have no knowledge of. White knighting will not be tolerated, unless it's raving about how awesome your budget bilstein setup is.


Since this is my thread, and i'm a moderator, and this is one of the only good threads on this forum, i will enforce the rules. I may very well do so without warning. If you're worried about receiving a ban over a post, then don't make the post. Super simple stuff.



Budget Ballers, this thread is for you. You want real performance, but you're on a Ramen budget. You lust after Xidas, but you don't have the patience to save for them. You have the money for Megan Racing coilovers, but you're smart enough to know that they're complete and total garbage when it comes to performance.

You're in luck. Many Miatas came with shocks that are actually quite good. Your car might even have them. They're called Bilsteins. My guide will not go hugely in depth in terms of WHICH shocks are right for you. I will just give all information i have on them. This will focus mostly on length and which "fits" your car best. We can discuss the nitty gritty in subsequent post, and i'll update with info as it comes up.

Step 1: Choosing Your Shock


Step 2: Choosing Your Top Hats
A large portion of this will be determined by your shock choice, as well as your spring rate choice. We'll keep this simple: If you have travel issues and are riding on bumpstops constantly, these will need to be addressed.

From order of shortest to longest: NA, NB, Custom/ISC/Garagestar

Here's a general rule, obviously with many exceptions depending your budget, wants, and setup.

NB Shocks on NA: NB top hats all around possibly acceptable. Extended hats in the rear are a good idea.
NB Shocks on NB: NB top hats probably fine. Again consider extended rears.
MSM shocks on NA: NB top hats front, extended rear.
MSM shocks on NB: NB top hats probably fine. Definitely consider extended rears.

Lighter spring rates are MORE likely to need taller hats, as you'll be traveling more.

Basically, it's never a bad idea to spring for some NB top hats at a minimum. If you're using NB shocks, i'll just say that you NEED NB hats, or you're going to have a bad time. NA shocks on an NA, your call. Won't kill you if you're sprung properly.


Step 3: Choosing Your Springs

Step 4: Choosing your Bump stops
A large portion of this is determined by your budget and if you're interested in future-proofing your setup or not. I've linked the FCM bump stop guide in post #3 (link to be added later), that you can use for a basic guide.

Baller Setup #1 Swank Force Racing Approved Bump Stops:
Spend $72.16 on 4x Integra Speedthane bumpstops and hack them up. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISS-310-3019-50

Start from the top. Cut off 30-35mm of the smallest diameter section and throw them on your shock shaft.

Then, IF USING NB or ISC hats, cut the second largest "disk" out of the bumpstop. (You'll see what i mean.) Retain that for later use. (FCM uses these in place of the upper rubber hat bushing, and so should you.)

Congratulations, for all intents and purposes, you just made FCM bumpstops.

You Like Ramen, But Only The Good Kinds Bump Stop #2:
For $46.88 + shipping, you can make a pretty decent setup that won't offend anyone. Buy four of these. http://www.acuraexpressparts.com/oe-acura/51722se0003

Cut to 25-35mm, throw over your shaft.

These are rubber, don't bother with the second disk like you would with the Swank Force Racing Approved Bump Stops, since this will just be like stock, but not fit as well. Throw the rest away, use stock bushings in your top hats.


You Only Want Bump Stops So You Don't Break Things:
Have i got great news for you! This will only be $25.28 + shipping. Buy four of these. http://www.hondapartssales.com/lisle/jsp/item.jsp?srchwords=51722-SR0-003

Cut to 30-35mm, throw on shaft. Throw the rest away.

If you're someone that will use these, you're probably someone using Ebay sleeves/perches as well. These are the cheapest way to ensure that you won't blow out your circlips that your Ebay sleeves are sitting ON, instead of OVER. If you're going to do cheapass, do it right.


Should I Use Stock Bumpstops?
What i'm putting in this thread is not meant to be a Bible, so you can do what you want. However, i have a set of MSM bumpstops that i considered using. The problem is that they're REALLY soft, which sounds like a good thing, but also gives you the potential to TRULY bottom out your stuff, which feels REALLY bad. Try at your own risk. I will not recommend it.




Step 5: Do You Want Other Fancy Stuff?

POPULAR OPTIONS:

-Shocks anointed in garlic oil to ward off vampires
-Springs bathed in scented rose water carried in a bathtub touched by Jesus himself
-Bump stops created in my very own Feng Shui enhanced kitchen, cut by the very best Made in USA steak knife.
-Smiley Face Stickers to bring you joy inside
-Grounding straps to wear on your wrist to be connected to the car on the other end, ensuring the feeling of connection to your car
-Buttplug makes analysis probing simplified. Also brings you joy inside. Wallet removed from process.
-Never-ending supply of buzzwords
-Suspension chakra alignment









Teaser: I'll tell you how to build Swank Force Racing Zyduhz.

Zyduhz by concealer404, on Flickr
 
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1
#84 ·
The factory perch sits on the clip. If you remove the perch the right way, the clip will stay on.

Instructions for assembling will be added in the next few days. Prepping your shocks will be covered. :)
 
#83 ·
Oh, added bonus to the MotoIQ style of NB bushing... you get the actual factory designed bushing that fits inside the opening for the shock shaft. Impossible to do that with any other solutions.

I'll dig my real camera out and snap pics this week to add to the thread, as well.
 
#85 ·
Thanks for reminding me. I need to dig through my email and find the cheap source i had for the NB mount hardware "kit." I have all that stuff brand new on my setup. Wasn't too expensive for some peace of mind.
 
#86 ·
I went ahead and ordered the Mazda washers along with my Miata NB bushing.
Way thicker than the fender washers that other folks recommend... definitely worth it for the piece of mind to keep the shock shaft from punching through some cheap washers NOT made for handling loads.
 
#87 ·
I need to look at mine again. I used fender washers on mine, but i think that's because the bigger NB washers didn't look like they were going to work with my top hats.

Will report back when i take one of mine apart to illustrate assembly.
 
#91 ·
Hi so I'm fairly new to the miata and going to track with it. I am one of those guys you were talking about that didn't know any better and bought Megan streets. I've never ridden or driven in a properly prepared car so I don't know what's good. I have a 97 and I mostly use car for track days but I have to drive it to the track. How do you go about how to pick a proper shock and spring rate?
 
#95 ·
I'm balling with my budget revalved Bilsteins and 600lb/350lb springs on my '94 Miata.
Bilstein revalved them to have more low speed compression, so it's not quite a direct one to one for what an off-the-shelf NA Bilstein would do.

However, the GF's Miata is running off-the-shelf NA Bilsteins with an indentical ballin on a budget CordyCord(AWR)/Eibach/NB Top Hat/Honda Bumpstop/etc coilover setup and 375/250 spring rates and while it's OK for the track, it's really sprung more for daily driving first, and track days second.

I'll be trading up to 800lb/450lb or 800lb/500lb next season. We'll see what the 600/350 setup will do for the stock Bilsteins, but from what most everyone has said, it will be too much front spring for a stock Bilstein that sees any miles on the street.

But, if you want something that will work well for the track and don't mind a rough-ish riding daily setup, 550/350 seems to be the sweet spot. Or a 500/300. You start getting down to how much push you want in the car, what your sway bar settings are/etc. at that point, but bottom line is, they'll be close enough.

I tend to favor a bit of push over having to catch a tail-happy Miata. Push is safer. Hence my 600/350 setup vs a 550/350 setup (more tail happy) or 600/400 setup (also tail happy, just stiffer). For next season I may reduce some of the push by altering the ratio of front to rear spring rates, but that's after I'll have had two seasons of track time in the Miata under my belt.

Oh. And for the NA cars with NA Bilsteins, you'll want to get a 6" front spring and 7" rear spring on them. I haven't bothered to mess with tender springs but am fairly certain based on where my current spring perches are that it'll be the same. 6"F, 7"R. And don't get me started on the whole torrington bearing/helper springs/extended tophat nonsense. For me, it's just that. Nonsense. I'd prefer to use that money that may show theoretical advantages on paper in ways that will show better real world gains. Like nicer tires. Plus, they can always be added later... but honestly I'm hard on the curbing at the tracks, and I've yet to feel/hear any springs coming loose from the perches while attacking a corner. Though, if you're setting up a back roads car, I could see the advantages. Softer springs, bumpier roads, it's bound to happen... just not where I'm going fast.

As always, your results may vary.
 
#96 ·
@JoeyZ31 and @stormin'norman Both have solid NA HD set ups...

I wanna give a shot using NA HD dampers up front with 10kg springs up front and NB Sport (OR HD) dampers in the rear with 6 or 7k springs and extended top hats...

Also wondering if anyone has ever installed a Schroeder valve on his billies to add a bit of compression damping (Though it would probably be unlikely)

I have a few saved PM's where I talk about my theory at length, but I wanna see responses for now..
 
#97 ·
Also wondering if anyone has ever installed a Schroeder valve on his billies to add a bit of compression damping (Though it would probably be unlikely)
I will be as soon as this season is over. Already have a pair of rear HDs that will go under the knife... and will have a set of front ones by then as well.

There shouldn't be anything more satisfying than fine tuning the nitrogen pressures in the shocks to get the desired results. Not to mention experimenting with the 46mm Bilstein COB pistons... their term for double-digressive shock valving.
 
#101 ·
I've hit my limit for today... but I'll be back tomorrow to talk about the "knee" (the point where the graphs alter direction) as well as what the dynos actually represent as you drive the car (slow speed, big bumps, high speed, small bumps, etc).

Figuring out what you want is the easy part. The harder part occurs when you actually attempt to valve the shocks using the shim stacks/etc. to control the flow of oil through the shock pistons. That's where the theory meets the pavement. Literally.

It's not rocket science, but requires a significant amount of trial and error, etc. Thankfully with the off-road community being so big into shocks/etc. there is a lot of info out on the web. And most of what the off-road people seem to know, has been adapted from the road racing community.

That, plus just about every part, washer, piston, seal, etc. available from the Bilstein parts department means we become a kid in the virtual candy store.
 
#102 ·
This gives more high-speed stability I assume? So if you hit a big bump going fast it allows the wheel to just travel over it, the only resistance coming from the spring, but the smoother slower bumps from changing road angle/incline, etc get stiffer treatment?
 
#106 ·
I'll ask him if he has any pics. He's pretty much out of the track game these days. Instructs here and there. Helps with car setup/etc. and currently helps crew a 70's era AMX Javelin in the American Iron series.

Though, the car almost ripped out the entire torque box (?) from the subframe at Sonoma Raceway last month. Last I heard the car was down for serious repairs/reinforcement of the suspension pickup points.
 
#109 ·
Art, you'll want NA shocks for your NA Miata.
Otherwise you'll lose precious rear shock travel in the back.
Or, have to break the budget setup and buy extended top hats/etc.

Also, best place that I've found for brand her Bilsteins are eshocks.com
About $430 for all four, delivered to California. Basically the same as my Mazdamotorsports pricing.
 
#112 · (Edited)
Help please..

I just picked up a NB sport suspension with the rear shocks blown. (I was planning to rebuild or re-valve anyways, pics below)

My current set up is a Koni Sport w/GC coil overs, Eibach springs 440/350 with FatCat bumpstops. I want to give the Bilsteins a try. From what I understand, my generic GC Sleeves are oversized and can fit over the Bilsteins with some adapter pieces. So here are some questions.

1) Should I get new coil-over components and baller out the Bilsteins or try to run the GC set up?
2) Will the Eibach coil-over springs on my Koni's work with Bilstein coil-overs? (fit and function)
3) How about a list of reputable Bilstein rebuilder/re-valve shops with average prices?


Thanks for this informative thread!

More pics just for laughs









 
#113 ·
Revalve is $500+ish. Waste of money IMO, also any sort of adapter would probably be pretty sketchy seeing as your whole car weight is supported on it. Where the **** did that dirt come from.
 
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