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Discussion Starter #1
http://clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=51412

In the classified ad above, the member omitted mentioning a price.

I don't know whether it was a mistake or intentional, but it is now in effect, an auction where members must PM the seller and make offers for the seller to entertain.

It seems to me that if sellers want to pit fellow members against one another in an auction setting, that the auction ought to be administered by an impartial party like eBay, not by the seller themself who could be playing all kinds of games behind the scenes. Using an impartial service like eBay makes the bidding process transparent and more fair.

My Y .02, as someone obsessed with fairness.

Bill
 

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Brah.
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i hate cr.net classified's

i would like to see some things change!

almost every forum i am on you can post in the for sale thread and one person can ask a question and have it answered instead of getting 10 pms asking the same thing. you can not bump anything you are trying to sell to the top. so even though you still have it for sale the only way to let people know is to repost it which i am sure would not go over well. plus i agree with bill on the pricing issue

this is what i would like see happen

1. ability to post in threads of items for sale.
2. prices must be required or $xxx.xx OBO
 

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Esteemed Member
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4,380 Posts
i hate cr.net classified's

i would like to see some things change!

almost every forum i am on you can post in the for sale thread and one person can ask a question and have it answered instead of getting 10 pms asking the same thing. you can not bump anything you are trying to sell to the top. so even though you still have it for sale the only way to let people know is to repost it which i am sure would not go over well. plus i agree with bill on the pricing issue

this is what i would like see happen

1. ability to post in threads of items for sale.
2. prices must be required or $xxx.xx OBO
Agreed. Closed CR.net Classifieds and faggotied group buy rules will be the downfall of this forum.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Agreed. Closed CR.net Classifieds and faggotied group buy rules will be the downfall of this forum.
Please explain "faggotied" in this context.

Is that a positive or negative adjective?

It's hard to keep up with metrosexual slang.

:mrgreen:
 
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Discussion Starter #5
1) If a seller finds they are getting multiple questions asking the same thing repeatedly, that's just evidence that the ad was poorly written and needs to be revised. The author can edit the text in their ad at any time.

2) Bumping is rude, self-serving manipulation of the forum system. Besides, there's no need to bump FS ads "to the top." With the current number of items being listed, anyone who's shopping can look at the FS page and see virtually all the ads on one page. If something is old such that it falls off the first page of listings, then obviously, it's something noone wants, the ad was poorly written, or the asking price is too high. If you really want to get your ad to the top of the page, then kill the old ad and place a new one. I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that and it wouldn't be breaking any rule that I'm aware of.

3) FS ads on CR.net should be rhetorical, just as they are everywhere else: Miata.net, L.A. Times, Recycler, Craig's List, you name it. We removed the ability of members to comment on FS ads because people were frequently behaving badly: hijacking listings trying to sell their own item for less, directing people to similar items FS at better prices elsewhere, bad-mouthing the item for sale (or the seller), etc.

4) Moderators were having to waste too much time playing cop.

5) CR.net ads are free and the mods don't get paid to screen the sellers. If you want a selling interface with a system rating the veracity of the sellers, use eBay.

6) If you have reason to believe that a seller's a bad apple, report your experience to the mods or post a thread documenting your experience with the seller in the "Forum Nuts and Bolts" section.

My Y.02,

Bill
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Closed CR.net Classifieds and faggotied group buy rules will be the downfall of this forum.
You're being a drama queen. The classifieds are a very minor aspect of this forum.

Whatever happens with the ads and group buys is hardly going to be "the downfall of this forum."
 

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Why do you guys have a problem with people not listing the prices?

On many rare pieces, the prices have not been established by the market yet. Hence I think 'taking offers' is a perfectly valid way to go.

For somebody selling rare and desireable pieces, 'taking offers' usually brings in the most money. For some psychological reasons, if you put up a high price people will be automatically repelled. But if you let them come up with that high price themselves they'll think it's their own idea, and they won't mind paying it.

Ebay costs money to list, costs money to sell. ALSO Ebay attracts the vultures, and there is no way to keep the final sold price secret. No thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Ebay costs money to list, costs money to sell.
Yes, because they're offering important services: a reputable, impartial, structured, accountable, transparent, fair bidding process, with protections for both seller and buyer.

For somebody selling rare and desireable pieces, 'taking offers' usually brings in the most money.
An auction is going to get you the most money. Arranging for a reputable venue like eBay to administer the auction will attract more potential buyers because they trust the structure of the venue vs. "some guy" manipulating the "bidders" against each other for his own benefit.

there is no way to keep the final sold price secret. No thanks.
I LIKE that eBay keeps things transparent. I object to your attitude about keeping things secret. That seems shady to me.

ALSO Ebay attracts the vultures
What are vultures?

Bill

Why do you guys have a problem with people not listing the prices?

On many rare pieces, the prices have not been established by the market yet. Hence I think 'taking offers' is a perfectly valid way to go.

For somebody selling rare and desireable pieces, 'taking offers' usually brings in the most money. For some psychological reasons, if you put up a high price people will be automatically repelled. But if you let them come up with that high price themselves they'll think it's their own idea, and they won't mind paying it.

Ebay costs money to list, costs money to sell. ALSO Ebay attracts the vultures, and there is no way to keep the final sold price secret. No thanks.
 

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Brah.
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7,484 Posts
even if you add more info to the ad it still sits at the bottom of the list and you cant bump it to the top so people can see you still have stuff or you lowered you price...ect.
 

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ClubRoadster.net Founder
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I may make some changes to the Classifieds section soon, but one thing you have to remember is:

YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR YOUR AD!
 

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Ebay costs money to list, costs money to sell.
Yes, because they're offering important services: a reputable, impartial, structured, accountable, transparent, fair bidding process, with protections for both seller and buyer.
So you are saying CR classifieds are not trustworthy with no buyer protection? If CR classifieds are not trustworthy then I fail to see how posting the price will make it any more trustworthy.

As to the 'fair, impartial' part- I think the seller has a right to sell to whomever he wants. I don't see what's 'unfair' about it. Also- even on Ebay the seller can cancel your bid if he doesn't like you.

I still don't understand why 'taking offers' bothers you. Did the seller in question turn down your offer and incurred your wrath or something :lol: :lol: ? Look in your local classifieds- a lot of cars are listed with no prices also.
 

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My biggest complaint with the classads here is that no one ever lists the location of the parts being sold. Occasionally it's in the profile, but most people neglect to fill in that section.

99% of my classads questions have been to ask the seller his location.

Oddly enough 98% of those times it's been in SoCal, so I guess I'm wasting my time asking anyway.

Thanks.
Richard
 
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Discussion Starter #14
jesseclee said:
So you are saying CR classifieds are not trustworthy with no buyer protection?
Not generally, but there are some bad apples in every barrel.

I am addressing the concern of some that they want to be able to read or make comments pro or con re: the seller's veracity on the actual for sale post thread.

My point it that the low-tech and free classifieds section on CR.net is not suited to provide "seller ratings" of feedback history as eBay does so well. You get what you pay for. And I don't see the value of having to wade through pro/con testimonials of people whose own veracity is an unknown.

jesseclee said:
If CR classifieds are not trustworthy then I fail to see how posting the price will make it any more trustworthy.
I'm not saying there is a general lack of trustworthiness. I believe "innocent until proven guilty." But as a very experienced buyer and seller, when I see someone omitting critical details from an ad (clear photos, price, mileage/age/condition, brand, part #, etc.), that's a red flag to me to be suspicious that the seller has ulterior motives to exploit the seller, or is merely ignorant of what it is they're selling and isn't even able to describe the item accurately, so you wouldn't know what the hell you're getting.

jesseclee said:
As to the 'fair, impartial' part- I think the seller has a right to sell to whomever he wants. I don't see what's 'unfair' about it. Also- even on Ebay the seller can cancel your bid if he doesn't like you.
When setting up an auction on eBay, you can set your preferences to block members with feedback below a certain level. What you're proposing is an abuse of a loophole in eBay's system. Personally, I would never do that.

jesseclee said:
I still don't understand why 'taking offers' bothers you.
I don't trust people to fairly administer their own auction. There's just too much opportunity for manipulation. ("Dude, thanks for your offer of $400, but someone else just offered me $500 [seller lying to inflate sale price]. Do you want to make a counter-offer of at least $600?") That's the BS that I'm afraid is going on. Hopefully not, but I prefer a system like eBay that's transparent and has protections against abuses like that.

Of course, in the non-eBay auction scenario, the potential buyer can balk at paying a price that they don't feel is fair. But I'd just as soon not encourage such transactions on the forum.

I object to your philosophy of offering the potential buyer enough rope to hang themself. To me, that seems underhanded, manipulative, and exploitive, certainly not the type of transactions I want to condone on this forum.

jesseclee said:
Did the seller in question turn down your offer and incurred your wrath or something :lol: :lol: ?
I never contacted them. It just seemed wrong to me that there was no price or location on the ad.

jesseclee said:
Look in your local classifieds- a lot of cars are listed with no prices also.
I've never seen that. In any case, I would not respond to such an ad, as I would consider the seller's motives suspicious.

We can agree to disagree, but to me, there are some serious ethical issues at stake and I don't want to see this forum serve as a venue for "bad apple" members to prey upon less savvy members.

~Bill
 

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I am addressing the concern of some that they want to be able to read or make comments pro or con re: the seller's veracity on the actual for sale post thread.

My point it that the low-tech and free classifieds section on CR.net is not suited to provide "seller ratings" of feedback history as eBay does so well. You get what you pay for. And I don't see the value of having to wade through pro/con testimonials of people whose own veracity is an unknown.
This is a separate issue related to the 'no reply' policy. Incidentally I agree with you- replies are not necessarily a bad thing.Sometimes it serves a useful purpose like vouching.


I don't trust people to fairly administer their own auction. There's just too much opportunity for manipulation. ("Dude, thanks for your offer of $400, but someone else just offered me $500 [seller lying to inflate sale price]. Do you want to make a counter-offer of at least $600?") That's the BS that I'm afraid is going on. Hopefully not, but I prefer a system like eBay that's transparent and has protections against abuses like that.

Of course, in the non-eBay auction scenario, the potential buyer can balk at paying a price that they don't feel is fair. But I'd just as soon not encourage such transactions on the forum.

I object to your philosophy of offering the potential buyer enough rope to hang themself. To me, that seems underhanded, manipulative, and exploitive, certainly not the type of transactions I want to condone on this forum.
A-ha- so that's the heart of your objection. The fact is- you control your own purse strings. If you paid too much for something you have noone to blame but yourself. Nobody is manipulating you.

Also there is always a kind of 'dance' between the seller and the buyer. The seller always pretends there are tons of interested buyers waiting in line. The buyer always pretends that he is nonchalant about the item for sale. That sort of negotiation posturing is always there any time there is buying and selling going on. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact I've sold stuffs where the buyer went into a bidding war and paid a lot more than my asking price. Just because you are willing to pay the list price doesn't mean you'll get the goods. You live in CA you should know how the housing martket works here in the last 4 years.

I've never seen that. In any case, I would not respond to such an ad, as I would consider the seller's motives suspicious.

~Bill
You've got to be kidding!!!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/255640811.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/255520807.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/254257119.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/254257956.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/253622681.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/253404855.html
Extremely common in used car listings.
 

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In general I agree with posting a price. It will usually net more results anyway.

I definitely agree on the "testing waters" type crap. Thats oh so ricer ghey. Your item should either be for sale or not!

However for some items I dont think its out of line for someone to post "best offer" etc. There are a variety of legitimate reasons a seller might do so, not of which have anything to do with fraud or misleading the buyer. Sometimes all the seller really wants is the best offer he gets...regardless of amount. Sometimes its an unusual item with no good way to determine value from other sales and simply letting the potential buyers make that determination is fair.

However, "redenck" auction type behaviour should be a red flag to buyers. In a forum where replies are not allowed in the F/S area such a scenario is possible. (redneck auction being defined as unofficial 'auction' where you must take the sellers word that others have offered more or a certain amount)

I tend to favor a non regulated or perhaps I should say "barely regulated" selling forum.
The rules are best if kept simple. And remember, just because someone doesnt post their location doesnt mean you cant get off your lazy ass and ask. Personally I think some people put too much emphasis on location anyway. If you have the parts I want at the price I want I dont give a flyin monkeys ass where youre from.

And as stated..the ads here are FREE so I wouldnt bitch about them much at all. ;)
 

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One thing we can do is make the FS/WTB section "moderated" So basically any post that is submitted will have to be approved before it is actually posted.

However, it's a boatload of work for the mod(s) involved and unless you have a relatively small classifieds area, it usually isn't worth it.

Besides, we have a PM function, got questions for the seller? ASK HIM!!!

I don't think phpBB has a mod like this, but on another forum we've used a seller rating system that's taken a lot of the mystery out of the "blank face" of internet selling. It's similar to the ebay rating system; you give the seller/buyer a + or -, and a short review.
 

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Miata Master
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On a side note have you noticed the amount of people that set up an account and only post in the classifieds..
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4766
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4747
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4678

well anyway those were taken from the 1st page of classifieds. I think you should have a minimum amount of post before you can use or see the classifieds like 30. people are just joining and posting classifieds and that is all just my .02
 

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ClubRoadster.net Founder
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On a side note have you noticed the amount of people that set up an account and only post in the classifieds..
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4766
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4747
http://www.clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4678

well anyway those were taken from the 1st page of classifieds. I think you should have a minimum amount of post before you can use or see the classifieds like 30. people are just joining and posting classifieds and that is all just my .02
That's a good point. I can change it so there is a minimum post count in order to post in the For Sale section.

I think I will make it 20 or 30. What do you guys think?
 
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