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Discussion Starter #1
:D
Do people really use these "on the street" ?
I love the WOW factor when you pop the hood. Anybody know what the HP is for, say, a 1st generation 1.8.
Smurfy
 

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The first link is mine and it will not be a DD...I don't think I would want ITB's on a DD...a weekend car sure but it wouldn't be much fun in traffic. Mine is/will be street legal but I would only take it out the odd time.
 

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Good for them.:roll:

IRTB don't make huge power. It's a "hey look at me I'm unique" thing 9 times out of 10. Don't get me wrong, I think they're very cool. But if you add IRTB to a stock motor, the power gains will be barely above that which would be yielded by a standalone ECU, which is required for the IRTB setup.

A stock 99 makes, what, 115whp? A full header, midpipe with no cat, and free flowing exhaust, with Megasquirt, might get you to 130 or so on 93 pump gas. IRTB might give you 135..... for the price of a used turbo kit. :fp:
 

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I'd put money down that 98% are.
^Agreed. If u want info look through all the threads. There's all kinds of builds from mild to wild. Anywhere from 130 whp to 200 whp. And yes some are daily driven. No they'll never make the power a turbo or supercharcher setup will for the money.
 

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^Agreed. If u want info look through all the threads. There's all kinds of builds from mild to wild. Anywhere from 130 whp to 200 whp. And yes some are daily driven. No they'll never make the power a turbo or supercharcher setup will for the money.
200whp with IRTBs aahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :fp:
 

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The second link I posted is currently making 17x whp on the last dyno. Hes getting new cams as well as a custom header made to hopefully get the extra 15whp iirc.
 

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Good for them.:roll:

IRTB don't make huge power. It's a "hey look at me I'm unique" thing 9 times out of 10. Don't get me wrong, I think they're very cool. But if you add IRTB to a stock motor, the power gains will be barely above that which would be yielded by a standalone ECU, which is required for the IRTB setup.

A stock 99 makes, what, 115whp? A full header, midpipe with no cat, and free flowing exhaust, with Megasquirt, might get you to 130 or so on 93 pump gas. IRTB might give you 135..... for the price of a used turbo kit. :fp:

Yes, its very attainable to get a turbo kit for the price of a ITB setup. The reason why I went with the ITB kit instead of the turbo kit (which I recently sold) was for the reliability factor. I go lapping very often, and I don't think that my car set up with a turbo kit would necessarily be that reliable on the track unless I did extensive internal work to the engine, many cooling mods, and spent a lot of money on proper lines, fasteners, v band setup etc. The ITB kit will essentially keep my engine remaining reliable around the track as when I was stock, but I have a few more hp, and lot more responsiveness. For street driving and DD, a turbo kit may be the way to go to get hp. However, for someone who does a lot of track driving like myself, there's just far too much to go wrong with a turbo kit. Especially a hack turbo kit like most people install anyways. The initial cost of the ITB kit is the same as a turbo kit, but to keep it running is MUCH cheaper. I will go through a lot less engines, turbos, blah blah.
 

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Yes, its very attainable to get a turbo kit for the price of a ITB setup. The reason why I went with the ITB kit instead of the turbo kit (which I recently sold) was for the reliability factor. I go lapping very often, and I don't think that my car set up with a turbo kit would necessarily be that reliable on the track unless I did extensive internal work to the engine, many cooling mods, and spent a lot of money on proper lines, fasteners, v band setup etc. The ITB kit will essentially keep my engine remaining reliable around the track as when I was stock, but I have a few more hp, and lot more responsiveness. For street driving and DD, a turbo kit may be the way to go to get hp. However, for someone who does a lot of track driving like myself, there's just far too much to go wrong with a turbo kit. Especially a hack turbo kit like most people install anyways. The initial cost of the ITB kit is the same as a turbo kit, but to keep it running is MUCH cheaper. I will go through a lot less engines, turbos, blah blah.
and what exactly do you base that on? You do understand our engines have come factory turbo'd in more than one trim with warranty right? From most experiences these engines are pretty stout unless purposely abused. I'm sure lots of people track low boost with minimal reliability issues. ITBs on the other hand are notorious difficult to tune for.
 

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crank or wheel? I think in the thread where someone took a tour of the place, they had 2 rooms with engine dynos. So that's crank #s.
 

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Probably crank, but I can guarantee you they did not drop down 50 hp from their drivetrain to the wheel. Gotta be pretty rich to mimic their setup tho. I would still rather have turbo
 

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and what exactly do you base that on? You do understand our engines have come factory turbo'd in more than one trim with warranty right? From most experiences these engines are pretty stout unless purposely abused. I'm sure lots of people track low boost with minimal reliability issues. ITBs on the other hand are notorious difficult to tune for.
Yes, I do know they came turbo. Which were the 323 GTX's, which I have owned two of. They were also extremely low compression (7.8-1) iirc, as well as they have much stronger rods. Both those cars blew up as well. One which was stock, and one what was pretty well modified. And both were only driven 1/4 mile, and never made it to circuit.

There is just far too much to do to make a turbo miata reliable around the track. Not saying that it cant be done, but to be done properly costs a lot more then an ITB setup. For a turbo setup you need more cooling (rad, holes in the hood), stronger internals, proper exhaust setup such as vband, a very good tune, and a very good manifold. And yes, if I am tracking the car, it is going to be run to its full potential, which is essentially abusing it. The itb setup can be harder to tune, but is much more forgiving than a turbo setup. If you get the tune wrong on an itb setup, the result will more than likely just be a poor running car. Get the tune wrong on a FI setup and you could be looking at motor swaps.

I totally agree with a turbo setup being the same price as an itb setup. Its the cost later on down the road that make the itb setup a better, more cost effective way to have a weekend track car.

I am hoping for a solid 125whp out of my setup. With the money I put into the itb setup, I could be well over 150-160whp, but for how long. I would rather have a car that never breaks down at the track, than a car that I may spend more time fixing at the track. If you ask me, a 125whp out of the B6 engine naturally aspirated is fantastic. That is probably a 40chp gain from when the engine was factory fresh. Judging by how my car was last year with a completely stock engine/exhaust setup, this itb setup should be a blast.
 

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Yes, I do know they came turbo. Which were the 323 GTX's, which I have owned two of. They were also extremely low compression (7.8-1) iirc, as well as they have much stronger rods. Both those cars blew up as well. One which was stock, and one what was pretty well modified. And both were only driven 1/4 mile, and never made it to circuit.

There is just far too much to do to make a turbo miata reliable around the track. Not saying that it cant be done, but to be done properly costs a lot more then an ITB setup. For a turbo setup you need more cooling (rad, holes in the hood), stronger internals, proper exhaust setup such as vband, a very good tune, and a very good manifold. And yes, if I am tracking the car, it is going to be run to its full potential, which is essentially abusing it. The itb setup can be harder to tune, but is much more forgiving than a turbo setup. If you get the tune wrong on an itb setup, the result will more than likely just be a poor running car. Get the tune wrong on a FI setup and you could be looking at motor swaps.

I totally agree with a turbo setup being the same price as an itb setup. Its the cost later on down the road that make the itb setup a better, more cost effective way to have a weekend track car.

I am hoping for a solid 125whp out of my setup. With the money I put into the itb setup, I could be well over 150-160whp, but for how long. I would rather have a car that never breaks down at the track, than a car that I may spend more time fixing at the track. If you ask me, a 125whp out of the B6 engine naturally aspirated is fantastic. That is probably a 40chp gain from when the engine was factory fresh. Judging by how my car was last year with a completely stock engine/exhaust setup, this itb setup should be a blast.
You don't need holes in your hood, you can use a log manifold, you don't need v-bands, or a perfect tune. If you track the car you want a SAFE tune.

Stop talking out your ass.
 

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I am the second example listed earlier. I do drive my car on the street on almost a daily basis and my set up is very radical. It is a pain in the ass at times but obviously do=able. However, i dont necessarily nattribute the driveability issues to the ITBS, moreso the cams and limited tuning. Im hoping my new cams, while making more power, will also be more driveable. And ofcourse I plan on more extensive tuning.
 

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You don't need holes in your hood, you can use a log manifold, you don't need v-bands, or a perfect tune. If you track the car you want a SAFE tune.

Stop talking out your ass.
Alright. I am just trying to explain why I chose to go ITB vs turbo. Its pretty simple. I've shown up to an autocross (of all things) where two miatas, one had a supercharger and one with a FM kit. Both were on a trailer at the end of the day. Supercharged crank pulley fell off, and FM kit had blown an oil line. (both were not hack cars in any sense)

Just by reading, lots of reading, I have decided to go the itb route. I'm not talking out my ass, I'm just going by first hand experiences, and what I look for in my setup.

Not having ducting in the hood is a recipe for overheating on long track days, log style manifold is useless, and I would not run anything BUT V-band on a turbo setup. And not having a perfect tune? Then whats the point. Everything on a turbo setup being done half assed is why the car will fail.
 
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