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Lit like a BranchDavidian
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So, its a subject that has been beaten to death on .net and many have said it can't be done, but it has. Now im going to do it too.

Move throttle body to factory location + blow off valve + re-routing vaccum line for s/c bypass = instant boost.

One of the guys at CCR (my sponsor) did this recently. Guy on .net said it wouldnt work or it would blow piping left and right. Turns out the trick is to use the bypass on the s/c in conjunction with a bov mounted on the s/c outlet elbow. I drove the car with it on and WOW. Even during heel-toe downshifts it makes 5psi (thats quickly blown off). The set-up is insane to say the least.... as fast as you can put your foot down the boost gauge goes up, party because there is always a bit of boost ready to go at the t.b. :)
Not to mention s funny sound between shifts... not like a normal 'pssssshhhhhh' but a quick "cccchhh". I'll post pics as soon as i get the car back...maybe even a vid :)
 

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please do post videos/thoughts as im thinking that pairing IRTB's with a super charger like I have in mind would be more responsive and a tad more violent on the response side of things. Granted its a whole lot more complicated to do than the method you described.
 

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m.net is full of naysayers but isnt this a pretty old idea? I swear I saw an underhood vortech setup on a truck that looked like it was setup exactly like you describe. can you maybe draw a diagram of how it will be on your car?

I might be misunderstanding?

anyways it sounds like its going to be wicked awesome.
 

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m.net is full of naysayers but isnt this a pretty old idea? I swear I saw an underhood vortech setup on a truck that looked like it was setup exactly like you describe. can you maybe draw a diagram of how it will be on your car?

I might be misunderstanding?

anyways it sounds like its going to be wicked awesome.

Vortech's are different that the Roots Style JR's. A Vortech is more like a Belt-Driven turbo, where the TB stays in the stock location and a bypass valve is used.

For me, I think leaving the TB ahead of the blower on the JR setup is bad. The blower will get very hot and the air will be more trubulent as it bounce off the closed TB. Personally, I think people do it just for the sake of adding a BOV ;) Unfortuantely, I can't test this theory because I run a 70mm TB on my setup.
 

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Lit like a BranchDavidian
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Discussion Starter #9
m.net is full of naysayers but isnt this a pretty old idea? I swear I saw an underhood vortech setup on a truck that looked like it was setup exactly like you describe. can you maybe draw a diagram of how it will be on your car?

I might be misunderstanding?

anyways it sounds like its going to be wicked awesome.

Vortech's are different that the Roots Style JR's. A Vortech is more like a Belt-Driven turbo, where the TB stays in the stock location and a bypass valve is used.

For me, I think leaving the TB ahead of the blower on the JR setup is bad. The blower will get very hot and the air will be more trubulent as it bounce off the closed TB. Personally, I think people do it just for the sake of adding a BOV ;) Unfortuantely, I can't test this theory because I run a 70mm TB on my setup.
Yeah, the VF engineering/Centrifugal s/c allow the use of a bov. But because the eaton is a positive displacement blower, it can make boost all the time.

Marty, im pretty sure that having the intercooler and the airfilter well shielded, heat won't be a problem, guess i'll be finding out soon. Eventually i'd like to go with the 70mm tb, but i'll have to research to see if having it behind the blower makes as much difference as having it after. As for the air being turbulent, as soon as the tb is closed, vacuum opens the bypass and allows the s/c to recirculate the air rather then pushing it against the tb whereas the bov dumps air as soon as the tb closes because it venting pressure right off the s/c and not waiting until the pipes are full of air.

Now, what i'd like to find out is if its better to have the BOV right next to the TB or on the supercharger elbow.
 

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Larger throttle body wont be as nessesary if youre going to blow through it. The M45 is very sensitive to intake restriction, and does not care so much to restriction on the outlet side, after all it is designed to make boost witch is nothing more than restriction on the outlet side.
 

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I'm working on a custom m45 hotside with a greddy BOV knockoff exactly as you described. I've been working on it on and off the last couple weeks, so my engine SC mount should be done soon.
 

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leatherface, this is off topic but why wouldnt you just use a hotside S/C?

cant wait for vids either!

how could he use a coldside?
i dont know, how could he use 5 throttle bodies?
centrifulgal blower discharging into a plenumed ITB setub with an additional throttle body at the opening of the plenum. would have to be creative as hell with the mounting, but it could work. :mrgreen:
 

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[epic said:
@ Mon May 07, 2007 10:05 pm]
leatherface, this is off topic but why wouldnt you just use a hotside S/C?

cant wait for vids either!

how could he use a coldside?
i dont know, how could he use 5 throttle bodies?
centrifulgal blower discharging into a plenumed ITB setub with an additional throttle body at the opening of the plenum. would have to be creative as hell with the mounting, but it could work. :mrgreen:
that sounds retarded. whats the point of putting a throttle body before an itb setup? not to mention having two throttle cables...
 

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I've been watching this thread @ m.net very close (it's been almost 6 months now IIRC or more) and I'm waiting until more people would have experience with it...

The modification it's not made for more power but for zero lag.

The only problem seems to be that the SC is whining all the time (since it's working all the time and not only under boost) - which can be tiring in every days commuting...

The ideal situation would be to have two TBs and to switch between the two...
So you can have quite and reliable operation everyday and instant power during the canyon run and auto-x.

A problem that they had (before implementing the BOV) was the instant boost that was built up when you lift off the throttle and then step on it again. That's why you need probably 2 BOV to be sure that you won't have this problem...
 

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Lit like a BranchDavidian
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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah, the guy who started that is my sponsoring shop lol. I drove his car while i was down there. It seems the bov relieves pressure as soon as it builds excessively until the bypass takes over which is VERY fast. The bov vents for only a moment, thats how fast the bypass takes over.

On my car ,the bov will be after the intercooler/before the tb , not right on the s/c outlet like his car. The key is the dual port bov.

I have a spare boost gauge that i'll hook up to the pipes pre-throttle body just to see what the boost is doing at all times..... just has he did, but im pretty sure im not going to see and massive spiking.
 

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[epic said:
@ Mon May 07, 2007 10:05 pm]
leatherface, this is off topic but why wouldnt you just use a hotside S/C?

cant wait for vids either!

how could he use a coldside?
i dont know, how could he use 5 throttle bodies?
centrifulgal blower discharging into a plenumed ITB setub with an additional throttle body at the opening of the plenum. would have to be creative as hell with the mounting, but it could work. :mrgreen:
that sounds retarded. whats the point of putting a throttle body before an itb setup? not to mention having two throttle cables...
it wont be retarded :wink:
 

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Re: Formula for instant boost w/sc :)

I've just got to stick my oar in...

I've been running this setup for a while now and I can confirm that the whine is slightly more noticeable than stock, but certainly not excessive. In fact when cruising under vacuum, you can barely hear a thing. That said, of course, if you put your foot in it, it HOWLS like a mad thing...

As DropTopDrifter has indicated, once having driven one, you'll be hooked.
 
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