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Aero Master
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2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
MT.net has one, time to make one of our own. I'm opening up this thread for everyone who has questions, wants to discuss things, or just wants to post pictures of sexy aero. Don't know what proper aero is? Take a look at these:




-Henry
 

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Motorboat Captain
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Question: Do my rear canards make my ass look phat?

 

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Administrator
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School us, Henry. :)

Any chance of a "Levels" outline? As in what to do for the basics (wing + splitter = win?), intermediate (get your diffuser on, y0), and like a boss (The three you just posted.)
 

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Aero Master
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Discussion Starter #5
aero is really all about balancing your car. It depends on how your car is set up; if you have a car with a loose rear end, it would be more beneficial for you to go with a rear wing than a front splitter. I will go ahead and do a list of what I would consider basic aero mods to do for those who are just getting into the aero game.

-Henry
 

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Hardparker Extraordinaire
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Uh oh....suddenly getting bad ideas of turning new nc into old nb brewing lol

In for updates and hope I can control the urge lol
 

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Love this idea. What I would want to know is how each element works and what can and can not be combined.

For example, I know that a 'wing' creates it's own downforce and it applies force to the car thru the mounts where it acts as 'weight' from the standpoint of the suspension. Though, the way I understand a wing, is that it creates a low pressure area that it ends up getting sucked into. But does a spoiler 'work' because the redirection of the air like some ramp? or does it kinda act by making the whole car a wing and thus creating some low pressure zone under the car? I'm guessing then that canards act in the same way then, or am I mistaken? What about an inverse shape like a rear diffuser?

From the looks of the first image it looks like your car is wearing both a spoiler and a wing, though the wing is set rather far back so is the spoiler there just to feed more air to the wing? or do they work in concert in some other way? With the diffuser only really ramping up in the middle is that because it's the only 'clean' air as the side blocks have just been run thru the rear suspension? or is this just another way to balance things out as running a wider diffuser is more than what you need on your car?

So much to learn.
 

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Aero Master
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2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Love this idea. What I would want to know is how each element works and what can and can not be combined.

For example, I know that a 'wing' creates it's own downforce and it applies force to the car thru the mounts where it acts as 'weight' from the standpoint of the suspension. Though, the way I understand a wing, is that it creates a low pressure area that it ends up getting sucked into. But does a spoiler 'work' because the redirection of the air like some ramp? or does it kinda act by making the whole car a wing and thus creating some low pressure zone under the car? I'm guessing then that canards act in the same way then, or am I mistaken? What about an inverse shape like a rear diffuser?

From the looks of the first image it looks like your car is wearing both a spoiler and a wing, though the wing is set rather far back so is the spoiler there just to feed more air to the wing? or do they work in concert in some other way? With the diffuser only really ramping up in the middle is that because it's the only 'clean' air as the side blocks have just been run thru the rear suspension? or is this just another way to balance things out as running a wider diffuser is more than what you need on your car?

So much to learn.
There really is no limit as to what you can combine together. Take a look at F1, Indy, or even the WTAC cars. They run wings, upon splitters, tunnels and diffusers. You are correct in that a wing creates its own downforce. However, the downforce is not really spread through the whole car. Overall downforce is split into front and rear sections. For example, adding a rear wing to a completely neutral car will result in a rear bias. Running a splitter only will result in a front bias. That is why I say aero is all about balance; you have to play with the size of each device to get your car to handle the way you want.

A spoiler, on the other hand, works by disrupting the airflow. Laminar (more or less) airflow hits the spoiler and is, for lack of a better word, spoiled. This creates drag, and more importantly, a high pressure region. Behind, or on the other side of the device, a lower pressure region is created. Spoilers are usually added to the back of the car, so it creates a low pressure region behind and slightly underneath the rear bumper. Low pressure tends to suck other air towards it (much like other things, air flows from high to low). Canards do act the same way, though it really depends on the shape of the canard. Flat canards do not do this; rather they create a vortex simply due to shape. A rear diffuser is shaped exactly like the bottom of a rear wing. I'll touch on that later.

The car in the first pic is a customer car. My rear wing mounts are designed so they are the furthest back they can be, allowing the endplates to be used as mounts themselves, thus freeing the underside of the wing to create as much downforce as possible. The reason the spoiler is there is help induce the lower pressure pocket that exists behind the car from any air that hits it. I'll admit it doesn't do much, but that was a choice the customer wanted to make. Another benefit from having the wing that far back is you can create a longer diffuser. A well designed wing will help drive the air flowing through the diffuser, again due to the low pressure created underneath it. The endplates are as large as they can be to maximize downforce and keep the high pressure and low pressure regions of the wing away from each other as much as possible. Since the control arms are still left in an open pocket, there is not much point in creating another diffuser area behind here.

-Henry
 

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There really is no limit as to what you can combine together. Take a look at F1, Indy, or even the WTAC cars. They run wings, upon splitters, tunnels and diffusers. You are correct in that a wing creates its own downforce. However, the downforce is not really spread through the whole car. Overall downforce is split into front and rear sections. For example, adding a rear wing to a completely neutral car will result in a rear bias. Running a splitter only will result in a front bias. That is why I say aero is all about balance; you have to play with the size of each device to get your car to handle the way you want.

A spoiler, on the other hand, works by disrupting the airflow. Laminar (more or less) airflow hits the spoiler and is, for lack of a better word, spoiled. This creates drag, and more importantly, a high pressure region. Behind, or on the other side of the device, a lower pressure region is created. Spoilers are usually added to the back of the car, so it creates a low pressure region behind and slightly underneath the rear bumper. Low pressure tends to suck other air towards it (much like other things, air flows from high to low). Canards do act the same way, though it really depends on the shape of the canard. Flat canards do not do this; rather they create a vortex simply due to shape. A rear diffuser is shaped exactly like the bottom of a rear wing. I'll touch on that later.

The car in the first pic is a customer car. My rear wing mounts are designed so they are the furthest back they can be, allowing the endplates to be used as mounts themselves, thus freeing the underside of the wing to create as much downforce as possible. The reason the spoiler is there is help induce the lower pressure pocket that exists behind the car from any air that hits it. I'll admit it doesn't do much, but that was a choice the customer wanted to make. Another benefit from having the wing that far back is you can create a longer diffuser. A well designed wing will help drive the air flowing through the diffuser, again due to the low pressure created underneath it. The endplates are as large as they can be to maximize downforce and keep the high pressure and low pressure regions of the wing away from each other as much as possible. Since the control arms are still left in an open pocket, there is not much point in creating another diffuser area behind here.

-Henry
Wow so much awesome! Thanks so much for the reply.
 

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Aero Master
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2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So, this is the post some of you are waiting for. Hopefully I can answer all your questions. The way I see it, you should drive your car to the maximum ability of the stock body before you start jumping into aero.

Now that you've done that, your first steps should probably be this:


There are many advantages of running an EP style air dam. The main reason is that it creates a singular flat plane for all the air to stagnate. This creates only 3 paths for the air to immediately diverge; to the sides, and over or under the car. Stagnate air is very slow air, so this will create a high pressure front in front of the car. This is beneficial, because now a properly designed bumper will create a large pressure gradient which is what you want to speed up air into the radiator. The great thing about an EP style air dam is that you can make it extend lower than the underside of the car. This has the added benefit of choking some of the air flowing underneath your vehicle. Since there is high pressure on the front side of the airdam, it follows that there will be low pressure behind it. This low pressure region helps suck air through the small gap between the airdam and the road, thus speeding up the air that flows underneath the car, and helping overall downforce and lift reduction.

-Henry
 

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Ricer in Disguise
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1,127 Posts
Here is a good example of the amount of surface area that is increased by a EP bumper compared to a stock bumper. Also notice how much lower the blue bumper is, compared to a stock bumper+R-lip.

This paired with an "under tray" is a nice smooth surface to help the air that does get under the bumper, accelerate past the rough underbody of the car.

 

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Aero Master
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2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Great picture Cody. Though you do not want the undertray to be at the exact bottom of the air dam, because this would get rid of the low pressure region behind it.

Can't help but notice you haven't put my endplates back on :p

-Henry
 

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Ricer in Disguise
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Great picture Cody. Though you do not want the undertray to be at the exact bottom of the air dam, because this would get rid of the low pressure region behind it.

Can't help but notice you haven't put my endplates back on :p

-Henry
This picture was taken a while back, they are on the car now actually, I just put them back on a few days ago. I haven't had the car back out since this photo actually.
 

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Thought we had one of these already, maybe I'm thinking MT.net.

Henry, since the first pic is your customer's car, how are the(what looks to be) corrugated plastic/coroplast secured along the center of the car? On the NA I sold, I left the center alone, but used coroplast after the chassis bends UP for the parcel shelf. Even covered up most of the RLCAs and transitioned into the early prototype Warhorse diffuser (is he still around btw?)

To contribute, here's a pic since I just put on the splitter from my old NA onto the NB. Airdam on the splitter so it's reversible (promised myself to be conservative on this car lol) and some spats covering 205 on 15x8 et20.



I have the diffuser hanging on the wall. I don't want to cut the rear bumper... yet.
 

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Aero Master
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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Arjay,

Yes MT has one, not us. Not technically, at least, it's just titled "splitters, diffusers, airdams..." and was in the exterior forum. I created this thread with the intention for track/race vehicles.

The corrugated plastic was installed by the customer, not personally what I would have gone with. I believe they are attached with metal screws. Personally, I would've gone overboard and riv-nutted the whole thing or dzus fasteners.

Warhorse is still around, they just are no longer a forum sponsor and do most of their sales through me or themselves.

-Henry
 

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Whoops, track only, maybe I shouldn't have posted my pic. I actually had no issues with the coroplast even next to the diff and midpipe. It's pretty durable and ecomodders use it all the time as something cheap and functional-- though there are definitely "better," more permanent alternatives.
 

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Aero Master
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Discussion Starter #19
edited post.

I didn't mean track only, as in that is the only thing it can do. Just trying to keep hardparkers out of here lol.

-Henry
 

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Need to get to work on this thing, been rebuilding it from the ground up as the previous owner was going to scrap the shell cause he couldn't sell it. Drive-Tran and suspension all in just finishing up cooling system and air intake system then off to aero.

 
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