ClubRoadster.net banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Quoting from:

http://clubroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5363

EndlessCorners said:
What do you think about dividing the California forum into north and south? Being in norcal all the socal stuff is just spam to me. Im' sure the norcal stuff is the same for them.
timallen said:
No.

C'mon guys. I give you your own section and you want more?
Yes, Tim, we do.

Tim's Solomonic decision on what he deems to "give" or not to "give" to Southern California forum members makes it plain that he's unfamiliar with the geographic distribution of ClubRoadster.net membership within California.

Obviously, I can't document the following because members rarely fill in their profiles, but I would wager that:

1) 99% of California ClubRoadster.net members are located in Southern California

2) Southern Californians comprise a statistically significant portion of total ClubRoadster.net membership

Now, to my point...

Not one ClubRoadster.net moderator is located in our area.

I, and many others here in Southern California, are unhappy about this.

<begin history lesson>

ClubRoadster.net grew out of the Southern California-based "RoadsterJDM" YahooGroup that I founded in March 2006 to share my passion and bring together Road&Ster-inspired Miata enthusiasts.

The YahooGroup still exists for the value of the rich library of images and links archived there, but no one uses it anymore for posting. Here's the URL: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RoadsterJDM/

Tim was a member of the YahooGroup and asked my permission to base a full-blown forum on my group. We agreed to work together to realize my long-term vision of a double-breasted CarDomain-like Miata-only empire with a ".net" forum side that he would own and a ".com" commercial side that I would own.

As our first step, we founded RoadsterJDM.net, with Tim credited on the front page as "Administrator" and me as "Founder and Moderator."

My "Konnichiwa, fellow Roadster owner!" text still stands on the front page of ClubRoadster.net, with Tim's name in place of mine as the voice welcoming new members.

As the forum (and workload) grew in size, we recruited more moderators from around the USA and the world.

When I decided to start my business RoadsterJDM.com, (ultimately, I changed the name to MiataRoadster.com) Tim and I agreed that he would respect my rights to the RoadsterJDM name and he changed the forum name to ClubRoadster.net.

With the name change, I forfeited my "Founder" title. We also agreed that to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest between my being both a vendor and a moderator, I would step down as a moderator.

With my departure from the forum management, the Southern California area became un-represented amongst the forum administration, and has remained so.

The current moderators are primarily East Coasters (Tim, Randy, Peter, Bryan, Kyle, Taylor) and international (Greg in Philippines and Michael in UK). Lastly, Jesse is based in Northern California. Nothing against Jesse, but as "EndlessCorners" stated above, Northern California has little in common with Southern California.

<end of history lesson>

In light of the above, those of us lucky enough to be local to the exploding Roadster scene in Southern California that this forum was born out of wish to be more fairly represented among the administration of ClubRoadster.net.

Personally, I feel that ClubRoadster.net should be a Democracy, not a Monarchy where perks are "given" to the proletariat.

I envision all ClubRoadster.net members having equal and proportional voices in the administration of the forum through the representation of local moderators.

RoadsterJDM, RoadsterJDM.net, and ClubRoadster.net were originally imagined as international. The top of every ClubRoadster.net screen says, "International Car Club for MAZDA Roadster Tuning Enthusiasts," not "East Coast USA Car Club for MAZDA Roadster Tuning Enthusiasts."

So, I open the floor for a public discussion that:

1) The owner and management of ClubRoadster.net immediately recruit at least one additional moderator who is a Southern California native and resident (i.e. not recently relocated from New York, North Carolina, Iraq, etc.) to better represent the interests of the Southern California ClubRoadster.net members who comprise a substantial portion of the forum's membership.

2) As soon as possible, the owner and management of ClubRoadster.net require all members to identify their geographic locations, define regions, and recruit moderators from various regions.


Thank you for respecting my opinions and considering my suggestions.

Let the discussion begin!

Enthusiastically,

Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,999 Posts
*throws $0.02 in the glass*

Does it matter where the mods are from? How does being from Lousiana or Maine impact the quality of the rules laid down in California? We have the same ruleset, and as such while we're geographically diverse, we're in the exact same spot online.

Part of being "international" is breaking down these walls, and I feel like you're wanting to rebuild them. I'm already somewhat dissapointed that now KINOD is a "California" thing instead of a "ClubRoadster" thing, and as such I won't be able to just go to General and see pics of what cars showed. Obviously, i'm excluded by geography from participating, but now I don't even get my vicarious fun because i'm not one of the "sophisticated, passionate" members?

Come to think of it, why is my passion for the car diluted any by living in Washington instead of the Peoples Republic of California? How am I any less sophisticated? I'm a little hurt by the implication that I'm no longer good enough because I don't live in LA.

I'm rather annoyed by the idea that you're determined to geographically segregate us, and I fail to see how an impartial moderator would in any way benefit a California region, much less the rest of the board?

FWIW, I think we're already at a 'good' staff level, why do we need more for how few posts come up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
So why don't we have two members elected to be moderators for every region?

Oh wait, that won't work because obviously some regions are larger and more influential to the Roadster scene than others. So in addition to the two moderators from each region, we'll also have an additional governing body comprised of, oh, let's say...."representatives", the number of which will be determined by size of region.

Then they can all get drunk and fight with each other.


........ya know, i can't quite put my finger on it, but something about what i just typed seems so........familar. hmmm............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,706 Posts
Re: Motion to add two new Southern California ClubRoadster.net moderators

bill is so right about everyone being from so-cal... there is no meet greater than kinod! :lol: i've been to every one since i got my car!

bill for president!..(is that what this is about?)
 

·
ClubRoadster.net Founder
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
Re: Motion to add two new Southern California ClubRoadster.net moderators

MiataRoadster said:
Tim's Solomonic decision on what he deems to "give" or not to "give" to Southern California forum members makes it plain that he's unfamiliar with the geographic distribution of ClubRoadster.net membership within California.

Obviously, I can't document the following because members rarely fill in their profiles, but I would wager that:

1) 99% of California ClubRoadster.net members are located in Southern California

2) Southern Californians comprise a statistically significant portion of total ClubRoadster.net membership

Now, to my point...

Not one ClubRoadster.net moderator is located in our area.

I, and many others here in Southern California, are unhappy about this.
Bill, what does it matter that there is not a mod that lives in SoCal?

MiataRoadster said:
<begin history lesson>

ClubRoadster.net grew out of the Southern California-based "RoadsterJDM" YahooGroup that I founded in March 2006 to share my passion and bring together Road&Ster-inspired Miata enthusiasts.

The YahooGroup still exists for the value of the rich library of images and links archived there, but no one uses it anymore for posting. Here's the URL: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RoadsterJDM/

Tim was a member of the YahooGroup and asked my permission to base a full-blown forum on my group. We agreed to work together to realize my long-term vision of a double-breasted CarDomain-like Miata-only empire with a ".net" forum side that he would own and a ".com" commercial side that I would own.
No, Bill. I did not ask permission. I told you that the Yahoo Group thing was antiquated and riddled with ads and hard to navigate and that I could create something a whole lot better with the forum software presently in use here.
You mentioned that you wanted to one day start a business and that you had already purchased RoadsterJDM.com, so I took it upon myself to register RoadsterJDM.net. I didn't ask your permission. I didn't need to. You didn't own RoadsterJDM.net, so I got the domain. It wasn't until later, when you decided you were serious about launching your business on RoadsterJDM.com that I thought it would be in MY best interest to change the site name, as well as avoid a conflict of interest with your commercial site.

MiataRoadster said:
As our first step, we founded RoadsterJDM.net, with Tim credited on the front page as "Administrator" and me as "Founder and Moderator."
Back before I really knew how demanding and attemptively controlling you were, I may have made some initial mistakes, but I have learned a lot since then.

MiataRoadster said:
My "Konnichiwa, fellow Roadster owner!" text still stands on the front page of ClubRoadster.net, with Tim's name in place of mine as the voice welcoming new members.
Which was not only your suggestion, but it only made sense upon your withdrawal.

MiataRoadster said:
As the forum (and workload) grew in size, we recruited more moderators from around the USA and the world.
Yes, and they are great mods.

MiataRoadster said:
When I decided to start my business RoadsterJDM.com, (ultimately, I changed the name to MiataRoadster.com) Tim and I agreed that he would respect my rights to the RoadsterJDM name and he changed the forum name to ClubRoadster.net.

With the name change, I forfeited my "Founder" title. We also agreed that to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest between my being both a vendor and a moderator, I would step down as a moderator.
I suggested it and you agreed.

MiataRoadster said:
With my departure from the forum management, the Southern California area became un-represented amongst the forum administration, and has remained so.

The current moderators are primarily East Coasters (Tim, Randy, Peter, Bryan, Kyle, Taylor) and international (Greg in Philippines and Michael in UK). Lastly, Jesse is based in Northern California. Nothing against Jesse, but as "EndlessCorners" stated above, Northern California has little in common with Southern California.
I still don't see what difference it makes where people are geographically located.

MiataRoadster said:
<end of history lesson>

In light of the above, those of us lucky enough to be local to the exploding Roadster scene in Southern California that this forum was born out of wish to be more fairly represented among the administration of ClubRoadster.net.

Personally, I feel that ClubRoadster.net should be a Democracy, not a Monarchy where perks are "given" to the proletariat.
I resent the implication that I do not work with the members in implementing changes and/or additions. Yes, it is my site, but I feel that I give far more than most any other forum Admins. You're references are ill chosen.

MiataRoadster said:
I envision all ClubRoadster.net members having equal and proportional voices in the administration of the forum through the representation of local moderators.
Again, I don't see what the problem is. I think it is run rather well and fairly.
This is NOT your site, Bill.

MiataRoadster said:
RoadsterJDM, RoadsterJDM.net, and ClubRoadster.net were originally imagined as international. The top of every ClubRoadster.net screen says, "International Car Club for MAZDA Roadster Tuning Enthusiasts," not "East Coast USA Car Club for MAZDA Roadster Tuning Enthusiasts."
Again, your implications escape logic.

MiataRoadster said:
So, I open the floor for a public discussion that:

1) The owner and management of ClubRoadster.net immediately recruit at least one additional moderator who is a Southern California native and resident (i.e. not recently relocated from New York, North Carolina, Iraq, etc.) to better represent the interests of the Southern California ClubRoadster.net members who comprise a substantial portion of the forum's membership.

2) As soon as possible, the owner and management of ClubRoadster.net require all members to identify their geographic locations, define regions, and recruit moderators from various regions.


Thank you for respecting my opinions and considering my suggestions.

Let the discussion begin!

Enthusiastically,

Bill
Bill, you are in no position whatsoever to make any sort of demands on how I run this site. If this were a brick and mortar store and you walked in spouting all this, I would throw your ass out! You are a control freak and a bully and there are plenty of people on this site and otherwise that know this. From the first time we discussed working on the forum, you have been very demanding and controlling, but I have had enough. I have tried to be professional with you, but you keep coming back with more demands and if you don't get the answer you want, you whine about it, make posts about it, tell other members to post about it, etc. You're 50 years old, right? Sometimes I find it hard to believe because you act so immature. Someone your age should be acting in such a way that the younger generation, like those you hang out with, look up to you and emulate you, but if this is the kind of behavior and thought you are projecting, I feel sorry for them.

I vehemently disagree with your statement that "Southern California KINOD attendees are arguably the most sophisticated, passionate, and active members of and contributors to ClubRoadster.net." If by sophisticated you mean "ROFL COPTER" then yes, they are. If by passionate you mean they're "often rude to other forum members" then I agree. A weekly parking lot meet does not make a small group of 30 or so people the most active members here. You and some of the KINOD people may be one reason why I believe many true hardcore JDM fans DON'T participate here more often. I think some KINODers view ClubRoadster as alt.roadsterdrift.net. That's not who we are.

I am also opposed to breaking this forum down into ever more regional cliques where people can be exclusionary of others due to geographical boundaries. If anything, the regions should be more broad in scope to include more world regions, and to that end I will be making some changes to the COMMUNITIES category.

You also need to be aware that this is not "Bill's forum to gain as many customers as I can and if I see something I don't like from another sponsor or member, I'm going to bitch and moan, PM the mods 'til the cows come home, and get all my KINODers to gang up on the Admin and mods". Free enterprise, Bill. If someone has a product for sale cheaper than you, it's possible that someone may purchase said product from the sponsor who has it cheaper! I know that's hard for you to handle, but that's how it goes sometimes and you can't monopolize the market by bullying your way through.

As far as your demands listed here and those you have PMd me about, go try that at Miata.net and see how far you get. At least here, I am providing you with a response, which you may or may not agree with, but I have frankly had enough of your demeaning other members of the site, talking trash about moderators, and bringing out into the open forums discussions that should have remained private. Well, since you brought it to the open, I had no choice but to state my side and opinions.

Your sponsorship is hereby revoked. I'll refund a prorated amount for the remainder of January.

If you even care to post anything more, each one will be scrutinized for content and any negative comments regarding me, the site, the mods, or any other member is subject to editing and/or deletion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,430 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Re: Motion to add two new Southern California ClubRoadster.net moderators

The ability of this message board to grow and adapt to its users needs are up to you. This means keeping and open ear to suggestions, as you are doing right now.

It also means you ought to be a pillar of maturity. I don't come here to watch you have arguments with your sponsors. I also don't come here to be told that my idiotic banter in the off topic forum is unwelcome. Miata.net can get away with that nazism, I really don't think this place can. As I see it, this message board is West Berlin. If it turns out to be like the East what good will that do? I think you ought to let people be as off topic and juvenile as they want, as long as it stays in one spot.

The reason I suggested a north/south split is because I saw it work on 300zxclub (which is where the rest of my mentality comes from as well). I liked that I could go to one spot and yack with local people. It provides a nice place to talk about cops, shops, roads, weather, etc. Its also a good place to meet people you might want to meet in real life. I ought to give you an explanation, so there it is.
 

·
ClubRoadster.net Founder
Joined
·
4,631 Posts
Your points are well taken and I will certainly consider suggestions made in the manner in which you have.
 

·
Supporting Member
Joined
·
12,259 Posts
Re: Motion to add two new Southern California ClubRoadster.net moderators

I think you ought to let people be as off topic and juvenile as they want, as long as it stays in one spot.
I disagree. While this issue has long been under contention, it is my personal belief that this forum would be best if it remained a niche site for talking about Mazda Roadsters and Road&Ster style tuning, not a meeting place to talk about anything and everything under the sun. Unmoderated and limitless off-topic discussion would significantly lower the quality of this forum and would severely impact participation from the more mature members I hoped this site would attract.

The reason I suggested a north/south split is because I saw it work on 300zxclub (which is where the rest of my mentality comes from as well). I liked that I could go to one spot and yack with local people.
I don't know that this forum will ever be the size of Honda-Tech or VWVortex where the volume of posts would necessitate splitting California into North/South sections. Miata.net, which has 25x more members than Club Roadster, doesn't even move fast enough to warrant separate sections for North and South California. I don't see how creating yet another layer of compartmentalization will more readily facilitate you talking to local people about Roadsters. We'll continue to monitor the situation and consider member suggestions but for now Tim has made a decision on this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Re: Motion to add two new Southern California ClubRoadster.net moderators

I think you ought to let people be as off topic and juvenile as they want, as long as it stays in one spot.
I disagree. While this issue has long been under contention, it is my personal belief that this forum would be best if it remained a niche site for talking about Mazda Roadsters and Road&Ster style tuning, not a meeting place to talk about anything and everything under the sun. Unmoderated and limitless off-topic discussion would significantly lower the quality of this forum and would severely impact participation from the more mature members I hoped this site would attract.
I remember the same argument was made on RX-7 club when they tried to bring their offtopic forum into some sort of order. People argued back that the mature people aren't interested in the off-topic forum. I tend to agree with the second view. Another way is 300zxclub's approach. They created a forum inside their offtopic forum for the really inappropriate stuff.

Now im not advocating allowing tubgirl threads or anything on that level. Moderation has its place. Im just saying stupid stuff like oh rly, ya rly banter ought to be allowed, as long as it remains in the general/off topic forum. I like the anything and everything freedom that other forums allow, you can get to know some really cool people that way. I remember at one point I used to go to RX7Club off topic for world news, then discussion. Miata.net is trying to be a car talk niche and look at how boring it is.

The reason I suggested a north/south split is because I saw it work on 300zxclub (which is where the rest of my mentality comes from as well). I liked that I could go to one spot and yack with local people.
I don't know that this forum will ever be the size of Honda-Tech or VWVortex where the volume of posts would necessitate splitting California into North/South sections. Miata.net, which has 25x more members than Club Roadster, doesn't even move fast enough to warrant separate sections for North and South California. I don't see how creating yet another layer of compartmentalization will more readily facilitate you talking to local people about Roadsters. We'll continue to monitor the situation and consider member suggestions but for now Tim has made a decision on this issue.
On 300ZXclub there were 10 regulars in the bay area section with maybe 15 occasional that would look frequently enough to see meets, then more people that were even less frequent visitors. It worked, I wouldn't be suggesting it if I thought it was a bad idea.

My final word on the current California section is this; if you want somebody to see something important the last thing you do is hide it in lots of similar but irrelevantly information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,999 Posts
Ya know, I hate it when people Ninja Edit their posts, now half of what my contentions were based on are magically no longer in Bill's post.

I don't know if i'm dissapointed because my argument has less relavence, but I still know I was told i'm a lesser person by virtue of geography, or somewhat relieved that not everyone on the board has to be told they're less for not making KINODs.
 

·
Supporting Member
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
Bill: Could we not have the Jerry Springer Show on here? This sort of thing needs to be discussed offline, not dragged out in the open like that. IMHO your request is not necessarily unreasonable, but you've shot your own foot by calling out Tim in public and stirring up a sh*tstorm in public.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
Roadsterdrift.com > clubroadster

there is just more topics here to look at and talk ****, but roadsterdrift.com is still the REAL OG son!

Show some respect!

LOL

Tim > Bill
BILL GOT A553D out


Oh and this place already has too many sub forums, things are hard to find as it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,718 Posts
You know, I feel this is the best forum that I have visited and joined. Period. I feel that the moderation here is rather lax and yet in a reasonably controlled way. I remember Will's thread about the advice he wanted about his girlfriend. The turned out to be hysterical, lasted just long enough before getting locked, and Will didnt take any offense because he know really non of us have any ill feelings or intent for each other. Theres a wealth of knowledgable people on here that freely give their advice in a non-insulting manner unlike m.net.

I left that site because I got sick and tired of the freakin rules for seemingly every damn thing you say there. Anotother thing is the ill treadment of some of the newbies that join there. Im sorry but if someone is new to a car forum, and asks a question, dont shove the SEARCH crap down there throat immeadiatly in a post. Pm them about it if it annoys you that much.

Sorry, I got off track there big time. Either way, I like the idea of the regional section. Now this is just me but in the Rx7club.com, I only post in the SE regional section. Im pretty knowledgable about rotaries and especially forced induction however I never visit any of the other parts of the site anymore to help out newbies. Im perpetually in the SE forum contributing.

Im going to try my hardest to be balanced on here. In the beggining before the regional section was made, this site felt a little bit more close knit because all of us from all over shared out experiences and ideas and so on. I know when ever I get on this site, I still do feel that way. Think of the amount of folks we meet from all over when everyone from the different states communicates freely in topics started in sections other than General Topics. I posted my stuff there for a while because there was no Projects section. Now there is and my posts as of late are more at home an rightfully in there place.

I think this site should stay the way it is in the regional section. Who cares if you're from So Cal or Nor Cal or whatever. Its like the Tim and I bantering that we need a seperate section for people that live in Orlando and up and people that live In West Palm Beach down. Since all of us in the Florida live within a few hours away, its no big deal if we get in the car to go meet up. I know in the rx7 club, we've all meet up at some point in time at one place. People from the panhandle all the way to the keys have had meets together. I think the braking up the sections of a state into different regions is just needless, selfish micromanagment.
 

·
Brah.
Joined
·
7,484 Posts
i feel the site is fine how it is last thing i want to see happen is more rules and power hungry mods.


whats it really matter anyways? half of you guys are from socal.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top