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enormous gay swords.
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but I also don't want to have to tinker with the car all the time.
Don't get ITBs then.

Besides, a Honda B series manifold makes more power anyway
 

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Quinn if I'm doing this to my 05 Miata with the vvt what should I change if anything and how reliable is the itb? I do lots of autocross and want to do more track days but I also don't want to have to tinker with the car all the time. I keep having issues locating the cams in the 264/264 combination. Any help would be appreciated. I thank you in advance for the help.

-casco
Hate to say it but if you can't even figure this out you shouldn't even try the rest of it.
 

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I was looking at Maruha's site and saw that the cams for NB are 252° on the intake and 264° on exhaust. Quinn, you said you have 264° on both cams, so are you doing a Maruha ex intake setup or did you make a mistake when typing?
 

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I was looking at Maruha's site and saw that the cams for NB are 252° on the intake and 264° on exhaust. Quinn, you said you have 264° on both cams, so are you doing a Maruha ex intake setup or did you make a mistake when typing?
They have a few sets for NB. Guessing he has 264 race cams, not the F Cam setup.
 

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I'm doing some research about a header for my 01. Interesting that you prefer the OBX header to the RB header. Unless i'm mistaken, all the OBX headers for NB's i'm seeing are 4-1 instead of the preferred 4-2-1 which I do see for the NA models. Another thing that worries me with that header is that there is no flex pipe, but I guess you get what you pay for.
 

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Garage Quinn Motors - GQM
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Discussion Starter #132
Quinn if I'm doing this to my 05 Miata with the vvt what should I change if anything and how reliable is the itb? I do lots of autocross and want to do more track days but I also don't want to have to tinker with the car all the time. I keep having issues locating the cams in the 264/264 combination. Any help would be appreciated. I thank you in advance for the help.

-casco
ITB's are fine with a proper tune. The linkage on the TWM/BORLA manifolds come pre-synced and are supposed to be maintenance free. I haven't had to touch mine. For the cams, look at Maruha race cams.

http://949racing.com/SPM-CNC-Head.aspx

Budget $4k in head stuff, 1k or so in a standalone ecu, $500 for a header, $500 for a new clutch and flywheel combo. Then figure out the ITB kit you want. If you don't know these things you might want to re consider ITBS with a custom head on your miata.

Those are very rough ball park numbers.
That head is way over priced and doesn't include any of the stuff you really want/need for N/A power. All you really need to do is clean up the flash on the ports in the stock castings and that will make most of the difference there. Unless you are going super built N/A everything, which is dumb on these motors anyways, there is no need to really open up the ports. There is no point in building these engines for all motor power, just go K-Series Honda and have a much better platform that was engineered for high RPMs. If I had to start over with what is available today, that is the road I would have gone since the Honda stuff is better in every way. I built this engine back before that was an option so now it wouldn't make sense to go that route since I have all of the big dollar N/A mods.

Don't get ITBs then.

Besides, a Honda B series manifold makes more power anyway
I don't necessarily agree with this. However, ITBs are not for peak power. They are for midrange power.

I was looking at Maruha's site and saw that the cams for NB are 252° on the intake and 264° on exhaust. Quinn, you said you have 264° on both cams, so are you doing a Maruha ex intake setup or did you make a mistake when typing?
Maruha Race Cams

I'm doing some research about a header for my 01. Interesting that you prefer the OBX header to the RB header. Unless i'm mistaken, all the OBX headers for NB's i'm seeing are 4-1 instead of the preferred 4-2-1 which I do see for the NA models. Another thing that worries me with that header is that there is no flex pipe, but I guess you get what you pay for.
They may not make the 4-2-1 anymore. However, the best bang for buck header seems to be the Racing Beat 4-1, even with its sad looking excuse for a merge collector. Either that or the numbers Emilio has posted are bullshit, it's hard to say for sure. Engine modifications may dictate what header works best for it's setup. On my latest build I will be testing the Maruha VP without the venturi, which seems to be optimized for more stock'ish engines. With my setup it might be a restriction.
 

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Garage Quinn Motors - GQM
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Discussion Starter #133
You're going to need to change the thread name soon.
I'll make a new thread once I tune the new setup. Hopefully it will say: My 200 whp N/A engine. Stock bottom end (sort of) :icon_cheers:
 

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That head is way over priced and doesn't include any of the stuff you really want/need for N/A power. All you really need to do is clean up the flash on the ports in the stock castings and that will make most of the difference there.

They may not make the 4-2-1 anymore. However, the best bang for buck header seems to be the Racing Beat 4-1, even with its sad looking excuse for a merge collector. Either that or the numbers Emilio has posted are bullshit, it's hard to say for sure.
Having built a few BP motors and tried just about every combination that most people are aware of, I think we have a pretty good read on what does and does not work for N/A power in a BP. Our CNC ports are quite small. If you have seen or flowed one on a bench you'll see significant areas we don't touch. Velocity at mid lift is key in an undersquare engine with such a low rod ratio. We have tried every step from light bowl blend and deshroud to roll a golf ball down the port. The sweet spot is small ports. In fact, the working name for the head we ended up digitizing was "small port".
The rest of the bits in our CNC head have been proven. T25 wins, national championships, lap records all over the world. Yes you can spend less and get less. For those with the budget that want all of it, let there be CNC.

That said, I probably tell 3 customers a week that call in for parts and tell me they have their engine torn down to bowl blend, deshroud and shave .030. That's definitely the low hanging fruit in a stock head rebuild. The port/chamber work can be done effectively with hand tools, half a brain and a lot of patience.

Regarding the header dynos, we have probably done 2000 runs on 40 or different cars over the last 10 years with RB headers. Published maybe 20 dyno plots, most on the same dyno. That and again, our race record, might be enough for some people. So yah, I agree the RB currently seems to be the best bang for the buck BP header.

Most all the stuff we have done over the years has been with a keen eye towards cost effectiveness. Our original rental formula that made 159whp with a BP4W deshroud, bowl blend, stock NB2 bottom end and square top on pump gas. Cheap power. As we started chasing national championships and our budget grew, we developed some of the tastier bits we now offer like the twin disc, CNC head, billet damper, etc. There is a recipe for everyone there, just depends on your budget and skill level.

edit: We made 192whp with a blueprinted stock head and 10.4:1 83.5mm bottom end with just 45mm TWM's, cams and E85. BP's love big cams and ITB's.
 

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Garage Quinn Motors - GQM
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Discussion Starter #137
Having built a few BP motors and tried just about every combination that most people are aware of, I think we have a pretty good read on what does and does not work for N/A power in a BP. Our CNC ports are quite small. If you have seen or flowed one on a bench you'll see significant areas we don't touch. Velocity at mid lift is key in an undersquare engine with such a low rod ratio. We have tried every step from light bowl blend and deshroud to roll a golf ball down the port. The sweet spot is small ports. In fact, the working name for the head we ended up digitizing was "small port".
The rest of the bits in our CNC head have been proven. T25 wins, national championships, lap records all over the world. Yes you can spend less and get less. For those with the budget that want all of it, let there be CNC.

That said, I probably tell 3 customers a week that call in for parts and tell me they have their engine torn down to bowl blend, deshroud and shave .030. That's definitely the low hanging fruit in a stock head rebuild. The port/chamber work can be done effectively with hand tools, half a brain and a lot of patience.

Regarding the header dynos, we have probably done 2000 runs on 40 or different cars over the last 10 years with RB headers. Published maybe 20 dyno plots, most on the same dyno. That and again, our race record, might be enough for some people. So yah, I agree the RB currently seems to be the best bang for the buck BP header.

Most all the stuff we have done over the years has been with a keen eye towards cost effectiveness. Our original rental formula that made 159whp with a BP4W deshroud, bowl blend, stock NB2 bottom end and square top on pump gas. Cheap power. As we started chasing national championships and our budget grew, we developed some of the tastier bits we now offer like the twin disc, CNC head, billet damper, etc. There is a recipe for everyone there, just depends on your budget and skill level.

edit: We made 192whp with a blueprinted stock head and 10.4:1 83.5mm bottom end with just 45mm TWM's, cams and E85. BP's love big cams and ITB's.
a wild 949 racing appears....

Seriously. Perhaps I should make more posts like that next time when I need to get Emilio's attention.

Emilio I called you several months back on 3 separate occasions and emailed as well in regards to a new oil pump for my setup and you not once returned one of my calls. Would have loved to exchange knowledge with you, but after almost 3 weeks and not one response I took my business elsewhere. Unfortunately you were the only one to sell those damn crank pulleys so you still got some of my money anyways.
:icon_cheers:
 

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Seriously. Perhaps I should make more posts like that next time when I need to get Emilio's attention.

Emilio I called you several months back on 3 separate occasions and emailed as well in regards to a new oil pump for my setup and you not once returned one of my calls. Would have loved to exchange knowledge with you, but after almost 3 weeks and not one response I took my business elsewhere. Unfortunately you were the only one to sell those damn crank pulleys so you still got some of my money anyways.
:icon_cheers:
Therefore our published data and products are crap. Got it.

FWIW, If I get an email, I usually respond within 48hrs. Phone calls with 3 days usually. If you sent me a bunch and I didn't respond to any ever, I did not receive them. Sorry if I missed you. I'm here to sell car parts so it's always my goal to answer question as soon as I can. Plain and simple. The damper is something I designed so yeah, we're the only source except Trackspeed Engineering which also offers them. Glad it worked for you.

Cool project BTW. Good to see someone creative sharing info for the rest of the community can benefit from.
 

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Garage Quinn Motors - GQM
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Discussion Starter #140
Therefore our published data and products are crap. Got it.

FWIW, If I get an email, I usually respond within 48hrs. Phone calls with 3 days usually. If you sent me a bunch and I didn't respond to any ever, I did not receive them. Sorry if I missed you. I'm here to sell car parts so it's always my goal to answer question as soon as I can. Plain and simple. The damper is something I designed so yeah, we're the only source except Trackspeed Engineering which also offers them. Glad it worked for you.

Cool project BTW. Good to see someone creative sharing info for the rest of the community can benefit from.
I never said that your products or data are crap. Nor would I argue that your R&D on the port work is probably as good as it gets. There is always a value in CNC port work. The person who posted the link to your head was telling people to budget 4k for the head stuff as if buying your head was all they would need. I simply disagreed. I think the head is overpriced sure. But I also think Flyin Miata's and just about everyone else's head and block assemblies are too. It's just my opinion. Just like it's my opinion that these motors are not worth the time or money building either. I get a lot of questions on my setup and at this point I usually recommend they just go K-series when they are seeking big dollar all motor power.

I've given you a good amount of my business over the years, but when it comes to trying to talk to you it's like pulling teeth. I'm not going to hound you to get a simple recommendation on an oil pump. The questions I had on your crank damper I got directly from the manufacturer. And yeah, I literally called you and left you 3 voicemails over the course of 2 weeks without an answer. So pardon me if I think it's funny that you can't return my phone calls, but are so quick to respond when I say I think your cylinder head is overpriced. But it's whatever. No hard feelings. I still respect what you have done and tested and shared with the community.
:smile11:
 
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