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Discussion Starter #1
Hello CR! I am a young lad from SoCal looking to modify his very stock blackonblack 1994 roadster. After some homework on many threads spanning 4 forums, I have decided diy billies are the way to go. (Thanks, @concealer404.) After reading a thread on miata turbo dot net where another newb got rightfully flamed, I decided to put together a parts list for the coils for fear of a similar fate (The thread did serve a purpose, made me come more prepared hopefully).

Parts I'm confident(?) about:
Bilstein B6 HD (NA) shocks from 5x
Advanced Autosport sleeves from AA
QA1 torrington bearings from Speedway
Eibach spring seperators from summit
Integra Speedthane Bumpstops from summit
Energy Spring Isolators from summit
NB tophats (I have them+hardware)
other needed hardware from ACE, chose their racing dept over Home Depot.

Parts I'm less confident about:
Eibach 2.5x6in 550lb/in fronts and 350lb/in rear
pick-a-flavor between a few different brands of 2.5x4in 25lb/in helper springs. (Likely eibach or hyperco.)

My problem areas:
1. According to

But, if you want something that will work well for the track and don't mind a rough-ish riding daily setup, 550/350 seems to be the sweet spot. Or a 500/300. You start getting down to how much push you want in the car, what your sway bar settings are/etc. at that point, but bottom line is, they'll be close enough.

I tend to favor a bit of push over having to catch a tail-happy Miata. Push is safer. Hence my 600/350 setup vs a 550/350 setup (more tail happy) or 600/400 setup (also tail happy, just stiffer). For next season I may reduce some of the push by altering the ratio of front to rear spring rates, but that's after I'll have had two seasons of track time in the Miata under my belt.

Oh. And for the NA cars with NA Bilsteins, you'll want to get a 6" front spring and 7" rear spring on them. I haven't bothered to mess with tender springs but am fairly certain based on where my current spring perches are that it'll be the same. 6"F, 7"R. And don't get me started on the whole torrington bearing/helper springs/extended tophat nonsense. For me, it's just that. Nonsense. I'd prefer to use that money that may show theoretical advantages on paper in ways that will show better real world gains. Like nicer tires. Plus, they can always be added later... but honestly I'm hard on the curbing at the tracks, and I've yet to feel/hear any springs coming loose from the perches while attacking a corner. Though, if you're setting up a back roads car, I could see the advantages. Softer springs, bumpier roads, it's bound to happen... just not where I'm going fast.

As always, your results may vary.
I need 7 inches in the rear. ha ha. I am wondering if the helper springs change this. I want them as an insurance policy against bumps and holes, and I do not want floppy springs like jacob300zx had on his thread for budget billies at MTn. also zeeduhs have them.

2. I am concerned that my chosen spring rates are too high. I know the quote above says a-ok, I've seen conflicting information about the spring rates you can use on another forum (I forget where) and I'd rather ensure I have springs that complement the billies I'm buying. On top of that, I want to ensure that the helper springs are thought out. I saw on the OG baller thread @concealer404 posted that a few of the options were sprung really high (50in/lbs, 100+in/lbs) and this feeds into my worry about high spring r8s. Also wtf zero rate helpers.

The intended use: spirited canyon/dd, capable of lasting and taking bumps/holes, and parking outside your mothers house.

Thank you for having a thread to spoon feed me, and any irritations that may occur. And hopefully preventing me from building a pogostick.

and finally thank you for allowing a dumbass like me to join your holy stomping ground. :)
 

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Honestly, just buy the ones I built that I'm selling. They're all of the right stuff.

600/400, 6" springs, you don't need torrington bearings or helpers.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Honestly, just buy the ones I built that I'm selling. They're all of the right stuff.

600/400, 6" springs, you don't need torrington bearings or helpers.

I’d like bearings, and know I can add them later. No issues with 6” rears? Helpers would be nice but I know they aren’t necessary
 

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Murse Magnet
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For reference, on my miata with 6 inch springs and extended front and rear top hats. If I use my lift and lift my miata up and keep it in the air for multiple days, my springs never come unseated. Helpers would not help my spring situation. My ride height is somewhere around 12.4 front and 12.6 rear.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
For reference, on my miata with 6 inch springs and extended front and rear top hats. If I use my lift and lift my miata up and keep it in the air for multiple days, my springs never come unseated. Helpers would not help my spring situation. My ride height is somewhere around 12.4 front and 12.6 rear.
What tophats, springrate, and shocks are you using? read today on m.net and a volkswagen forum that B6 hds can only handle up to 500in/lbs with stock valving. less concerned with unseating, more with overdamping the shock. Also saw that someone had a problem with the sleeve coming off the shock without helpers, but the roads around me are ok and I dont worry about that stuff.
 

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Murse Magnet
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Nb Bilstein b6? (The one with the shortened shock shaft) shock, 6 inch springs 550/350 spring rates. Goodwin feal topaste front and rear but for reference those top hats don’t work on the front for nb chassis.

If I were doing it over again I’d do the maruha top hats. Even easier, I’d buy them pre done for me like this post offers.

I’ve been happy with my suspension for a few years now.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Nb Bilstein b6? (The one with the shortened shock shaft) shock, 6 inch springs 550/350 spring rates. Goodwin feal topaste front and rear but for reference those top hats don’t work on the front for nb chassis.

If I were doing it over again I’d do the maruha top hats. Even easier, I’d buy them pre done for me like this post offers.

I’ve been happy with my suspension for a few years now.
From my understanding I don’t need extended top hats with the NA b6s. My question is for the max spring rates on those. Thanks for the input, I am considering his offer as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also wanted AA sleeves, heard through q grapevine the sit better but idk
 

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Murse Magnet
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From my understanding I don’t need extended top hats with the NA b6s. My question is for the max spring rates on those. Thanks for the input, I am considering his offer as well.
Extended hats help. Before my extended front hats, sitting stationary my bump stops were touching the top hat and shock body or nearly about to. With the extended fronts my bump stops have a little bit of travel before engaging.

I did take off my springs when I installed the top hats to measure my shock compression and sized my bumpstops. I needed to add about 10mm of bumpstop material for my application. Overall I think in the front I have 44mm bumpstops.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How is ride quality using Bilstein B6's?
as far as I can tell, it has more to do with the spring rates you choose when building the coils. The NA HD bilsteins should be avoided as the valving can’t standup to higher spring rates. Go with NB b6’s then research what rates are best for your own purpose to pair.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
150234


current setup with the nb bilsteins. Spoke to 5x, determined nb b6's were the best for my application. Now have to decide about top hats, mainly the length and brand. I am looking at the garage star and goodwin hats at the moment. Would like reccomendations. Are the springs supposed to be unseated until installed? as in the shocks compress and meet the spring when the car is on the ground?
 

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Murse Magnet
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Goodwin fit the rear but not the fronts in nb’s. They do fit the front on na chassis cars.

Maruha is a good option for a set of 4 for not much money. I think $128 shipped for 4.

The extended top hats move the spring perch on the hat lower which fixes some of that spring slack. Also b8’s have a shorter shock shaft so there would be even less spring slack if you had those.

My setup with 6 inch springs and extended front and rear hats has 0 spring slack even if I uninstalled my shocks from the car at my current ride height.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Goodwin fit the rear but not the fronts in nb’s. They do fit the front on na chassis cars.

Maruha is a good option for a set of 4 for not much money. I think $128 shipped for 4.

The extended top hats move the spring perch on the hat lower which fixes some of that spring slack. Also b8’s have a shorter shock shaft so there would be even less spring slack if you had those.

My setup with 6 inch springs and extended front and rear hats has 0 spring slack even if I uninstalled my shocks from the car at my current ride height.
How long are your sleeves, and how deep are the goodwin tophats? I have checked out maruha and don't know whether to choose the 2 inch or 1 inch versions. I know the goodwin hats have a centering ring that fits the spring isolator as well, will not having something similar make a huge difference?
 

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Murse Magnet
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How long are your sleeves, and how deep are the goodwin tophats? I have checked out maruha and don't know whether to choose the 2 inch or 1 inch versions. I know the goodwin hats have a centering ring that fits the spring isolator as well, will not having something similar make a huge difference?
I think I measured the goodwin hat as being 20mm or around .75-.8 of an inch extended.
I would go with the 1 inch maruha extended hats if it were my car for both front and rear. As far as I know maruha are oem style hats just extended so whatever method you used to install oem is valid for maruha.

My sleeve length? Hmm. Dunno, I did cut down my sleeves so that the top of the sleeve was marginally shorter than the body of the shock. Before cutting them, the sleeve extended a bit passed the body of the shock at the top.

My springs however, are 6 inches long. If I had to speculate, I think there are spring locator rings that can be used with stock hats and 2.5 inch springs. I'd use those for the top.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
How long are your sleeves, and how deep are the goodwin tophats? I have checked out maruha and don't know whether to choose the 2 inch or 1 inch versions. I know the goodwin hats have a centering ring that fits the spring isolator as well, will not having something similar make a huge difference?
**** My mistake. Was thinking of ISC's tophats that come with the two different sizes. Spoke with maruha with the help of a japanese speaking friend, decided on the ISC 2 inch hats because I want lowz and to maintain my shock travel. Want to come up with a way to attach spring isolators to the tophats.
 

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Murse Magnet
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**** My mistake. Was thinking of ISC's tophats that come with the two different sizes. Spoke with maruha with the help of a japanese speaking friend, decided on the ISC 2 inch hats because I want lowz and to maintain my shock travel. Want to come up with a way to attach spring isolators to the tophats.
Isc is the only top hat option that isn’t recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Isc is the only top hat option that isn’t recommended.
Because of the risk that the wheel will catch the inside of the fender due to too much shock travel? Because the lack of spring centering? because of the issue of certain bump stops not working properly with the hat?
please be more specific.
 
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