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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, enough of that fancy stuff lol. I realize I never properly introduced myself in the intro forums buuuuut I like hanging out in the performance section. Anyway, my name is Chris and I own a 2001 SE miata with a few bolt ons (I/H/E, Tokico illuminas, FM springs, MR tall short shifter, SS brake and clutch lines, 15x7 +20 TR motorsports C1's and 225/45/15 RS3's). The car is nothing special at the momentbut I'm working on it. This car is my DD and I autocross once a month. Ive owned the car for almost a year now and have 3 1st place finishes in CSP.....very proud of that lol.

Sorry for that boring crap! On to the good stuff: I'm currently working on porting and polishing a spare VVT head and will be swapping that on when I finish. I'm in no big hurry because I'm trying to do it right! I will have the head shaved to bump the CR and I might even throw 1mm+ valves in the head. Who knows? After joining up on here and seeing all the excellent, sexy, drool-worthy ITB builds, ive become veryyyyyy tempted!

Before I say anything else, heres a little background on me and my build. I'm trying to do everything on a budget. I'm a full time student with a part time job and don't have thousands of dollars to throw at a super high dollar kit. I really would like to do this but I would also like to keep costs down as much as possible! I know I wont be able to do this for next to nothing though....

Now the questions.........the whole reason I called you in here

Is it worth it? Would it be better to buy a full bolt on kit of try to source/make (I have access to a machine shop for a discounted price) my own kit out of parts from every corner of the earth? What did you do? Do you absolutely love it? What standalone are you running? Are there barebones kits that I could buy, get running and add to later to improve?

I'd really appreciate any replies with answers, criticisms, advice or encouragement. I really like the community here and hope you guys can help me with this whole thing. I'm gonna start researching and trying to find pricing on everything I would need! Thanks ahead of time for any help.
 

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Deciding if its worth it or not depends on what you want from your car. If you want power then no, its not worth it. With the plans you have so far, plus some ITBs and some reasonable street cams you will probably make somewhere around 160hp.

Still a huge boost from stock but FI is the only way to go if you are looking for big power.

As for the kits, I bought the jenvey kit and have spent money on top of the kit as there are plenty of things you still need to work out on your own steam.

All up when im done I will have spent about $3,000 (AUD) including some discount mechanic labour. For another 2k I could have boosted.

But if you aren't out for absolute power then yeah, 160hp is a nice increase, they sound amazing and look sexy. Plus its always nice to take the road less traveled .

If you want ITBs for cheap you will have to make a homebrew kit, the resources you need are all in this subforum. It will take plenty of patience and you wont have your car for a while! trust me!
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you for the advice. My goal is 150-160HP range. I flirted with the idea of a boosted miata but decided to save it for the junker miata my dad just bought me to turn in to a track monster. This car will be staying my DD/autox vehicle and I'm starting to like this idea more and more.

Edit: would any set of 4 itbs that are cable driven technically work? Cause a friend of mine went to the junk yard and saw a set of awesome looking 4age black top itbs!
 

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Go for it then!

You should hit your 160 without too much hassle.

The only advice is, because this is your daily, arrange another car.

This is not something you will knock back on a lazy weekend. Theres always a few things you didnt plan for and parts you will need to wait for!

I forgot to address ecu, I believe we are all running a MS ecu. A lot of which were built by Revenant. Im not sure if he is on CR.net as i've only just signed up here, but he is on m.net and miataturbo


EDIT: as for the 4age parts this thread will answer your questions
http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39898
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the helpful information! I already found that thread through searching and have already commissioned Reverant to make an Ecu for me :) ive been on MT.net for awhie and already know of his greatness when its comes to MS. I figured out through searching that it really is the cheapest option
 

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brontosaurus
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7,236 Posts
Whether or not you should buy a kit or slap together a DIY kit is really all up to you.

The T3 VVT adaptor isn't done yet. So there will be some waiting regardless. Things to consider; adaptor+ fuel rail+ ae111 throttles + velocity stacks= ~$700 all in itself. This will leave you with you with a pile of parts that cannot be used yet. You will need to fabricate your own linkage setup to have full throttle.

I am not aware of your own capabilities, but this can be pretty cheap and quick or extremely time consuming.

If this is your only car, I would not DIY it.

You need to understand pulling the intake manifold, mounting the throttles to figure out a solution, then uninstalling the throttles, reinstalling the intake amnifold, then developing the system, only to have to go through the whole process over and over until you get it right, will be a very time consuming process. It will have your car down for extended periods of time. As a full time student working part time if this is your only car, good luck. I would never tackle a project like this without a second car, unless I was a skilled fabricator with metal working, machining, and welding capabilities.
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #8
Whether or not you should buy a kit or slap together a DIY kit is really all up to you.

The T3 VVT adaptor isn't done yet. So there will be some waiting regardless. Things to consider; adaptor+ fuel rail+ ae111 throttles + velocity stacks= ~$700 all in itself. This will leave you with you with a pile of parts that cannot be used yet. You will need to fabricate your own linkage setup to have full throttle.

I am not aware of your own capabilities, but this can be pretty cheap and quick or extremely time consuming.

If this is your only car, I would not DIY it.

You need to understand pulling the intake manifold, mounting the throttles to figure out a solution, then uninstalling the throttles, reinstalling the intake amnifold, then developing the system, only to have to go through the whole process over and over until you get it right, will be a very time consuming process. It will have your car down for extended periods of time. As a full time student working part time if this is your only car, good luck. I would never tackle a project like this without a second car, unless I was a skilled fabricator with metal working, machining, and welding capabilities.
You really seem to know what you're talking about. I guess ill just start saving for a proper bolt on kit! To be honest, I dont have the skill or knowledge to fabricate all that stuff myself!
I do have a few of the skills you mentioned being necessary (my part time job is in a speed shop) but I'm no where close to a master.



I have a bike to get around my rather small city and to take to class/work. If I were to get a bolt on kit, hopefully there wouldn't be much downtime.

Thanks again!

Don't forget the squaretop intake manifold. That'll actually make power at a reasonable price as opposed to ITBs.
Actually, after discussing with Jeremy at FM and reviewing their dyno graphs, the square top has a very small effect on an N/A motor...its all up top too. I think it was a 6-7 HP gain but only above 7000rpms. It actually hurt the midrange power when compared to a stock VTCS manifold.


My overall goal is to add a sick piece to my build and increase throttle response....and hopefully add a little mid-high range power and tq
 

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Interesting. I guess I must be regurgitating a bit of mt.net, I suppose if at a higher flow rate you're seeing those gains it must be FI-preferential.
 

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Interesting. I guess I must be regurgitating a bit of mt.net, I suppose if at a higher flow rate you're seeing those gains it must be FI-preferential.
Unless this was used in conjunction with F/I seeing as how its on mt.net. But, I'm too lazy at the moment to find out that tid bit of info. To answer you're other question about the blacktop ITBs, because I just got this answered myself, you can use them if you're planning on running the T3 adapter. In case you don't know T3= Techno Toys Tuning who is building the adapter to run Toyota silver top and black top ITBs. Tho, know that it's being built with the smaller silver top ITBs in mind. So the bigger black top ones will work, but the adapter should be port matched to optimize flow. And if you've decided not to DIY already then pay no attention what I just said.
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #12
Interesting. I guess I must be regurgitating a bit of mt.net, I suppose if at a higher flow rate you're seeing those gains it must be FI-preferential.
Its excellent for FI. Those guys are seeing 25HP increases on 300 builds which is awesome....just not necessary for N/A





Watch out shaving the head with the timing belt.

I still have to figure out a solution for that! Thanks for reminding me. Ill probably look in to an adjustable tensioner or maybe just a larger one. The head shave wont be drastic so it might not even matter. I think I'm gonna stay within factory spec




And if you've decided not to DIY already then pay no attention what I just said.
Noted. Lol. Thank you though for taking the time to reply!
 

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brontosaurus
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A bigger tensioner won't fix anything with a head shave. The belt is tensions on the left side. Shaving the head retards the intake cam because the cams are physically closer to the crank. It's nothing an adjustable cam gear can't undo, but unless you are planning a huge shave, like .030" or .040", you shouldn't have much to worry about.

Heck if you work at a speed shop, you should have a better chance than anyone getting the T3 setup hooked up. Read through that thread carefully. There are a lot of ideas floating around about proper linkage. If you could weld though, or have other employees that can, I imagine cutting the miata pulley off and welding it to the ITB would work with the right sized cable. A speed shop should be able to shorten a throttle cable too. Going the T3 route would save you ~$1000 in parts. I just wanted to make sure you understood it is a project. I think a lot of people bought the kits thinking this was a collect the right parts, install, and drive type of deal. Which it is not.
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #14
Ive done a bit of research about head shaving and my current motor. If I'm not mistaken, I have the 11:1 pistons from the factory and figured a .015" or a .020" shave might be enough to bump it just a little. I'm really just trying to make full use of the 93 octane gas I use in my car haha. And if I could ever find them, I might just throw the JDM 01-05 pistons in my car...I believe those are 11.5:1

My boss and some of the veteran employees are always willing to help me with projects so I just might do that. I'm currently taking time to research and save my money. After I read enough stuff, ill understand if my current skills can tackle the job of a DIY kit or if ill just have to log more hours! Working weekends FTW!
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #16
Lies :p




Just kidding, I know. I only do local events though...no national stuff for me. Ill either run in CSP and see if anyone will petitions me (they wont...) or ill just run in SM. What class I race in doesn't matter to me, I have fun no matter where I sit! I could always run in one of two local classes we have: street tire pax where you race against other people with the street tire pax but all have your class pax factored in or the TallyImports (Tallahassee FTW) class where there are no pax adjustments, only raw time.
 

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Lies :p




Just kidding, I know. I only do local events though...no national stuff for me. Ill either run in CSP and see if anyone will petitions me (they wont...) or ill just run in SM. What class I race in doesn't matter to me, I have fun no matter where I sit! I could always run in one of two local classes we have: street tire pax where you race against other people with the street tire pax but all have your class pax factored in or the TallyImports (Tallahassee FTW) class where there are no pax adjustments, only raw time.
Im the same way. I just do the local auto crosses for fun. I don't give a crap what class im in. I just wanna safely beat the dog piss out of my car
 

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Garage Quinn Motors - GQM
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Ive done a bit of research about head shaving and my current motor. If I'm not mistaken, I have the 11:1 pistons from the factory and figured a .015" or a .020" shave might be enough to bump it just a little. I'm really just trying to make full use of the 93 octane gas I use in my car haha. And if I could ever find them, I might just throw the JDM 01-05 pistons in my car...I believe those are 11.5:1

My boss and some of the veteran employees are always willing to help me with projects so I just might do that. I'm currently taking time to research and save my money. After I read enough stuff, ill understand if my current skills can tackle the job of a DIY kit or if ill just have to log more hours! Working weekends FTW!
Your car has 10:1 compression. JDM 01+ is 10.5:1. If you require emissions testing on your car via the OBDII port, then you should really reconsider doing this. You will be removing and having to modify many components of the engine, resulting in it never being able to "honestly" pass an OBDII emissions test. Just to give you an idea, MAF removal, TPS sensor change, EGR removal, modications to the fuel system (all NB Miata's have returnless fuel systems unlike NA's), as well as the electonics like ECU, wiring for injectors, TPS, etc. The emissions test depends on those sensors being present and successfully setting the readiness monitors.

I would also not advise doing this to a daily driver. You will be experiencing a good amount of downtime. No way around it. If you want an idea of what is involved, search my build thread. In the last 6 years I have not seen anyone else run ITB's on a street driven NB Miata.
 

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enormous gay swords.
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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Luckily I live in Florida and we're cool and badass and dont have inspections anymore :)

Ive done far worse things to my past daily drivers so I'm not really worried about it
 
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