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Roll Bar God
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The car that I just bought came with a boss frog double hoop rollbar that is so new that the installation wasn't even finalized, so basically it is as new as it gets.

For experimental purposes, I'd like to sell it modified with the same door bars that I build in every Blackbird Fabworx 6 point rollbar.

The bar is silver and the door bars will be matched as closely as possible.

The price is including installation and is $1050 for NA and $1250 for NB.
If you're interested in this one-off custom rollbar let me know ASAP as there won't be another one - I have no plan to make double hoop rollbars.

Thanks,

Moti
 

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Roll Bar God
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2,172 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bump.
Where are all the guys that PM'ed with inquiries about a similar setup in the past?
Here's what you guys were asking for, buy it! :whistle:

Edited to add pics.
Here's the rollbar, comes with the BF seatbelt adapters shown in the pic, PLUS door bars that are similar to the ones seen in the NA and NB in the pics.

Moti
 

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Man, like I said I'd love to pick it up, but no way I can justify that kinda of cost... Have you thought about a lower cost option where you can just weld an adopter plate for the door bars and leave the installation to the customer?
 

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Roll Bar God
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How much are you expecting to save on the installation?

Let's do some math -
If you bought this rollbar today from boss frog with the seatbelt adapters you will pay about $650 for it by the time it reaches your door step.
Add $300 plus shipping for boss frog door bars, so now you're at nearly $1000 and you have inferior door bars.

Now let's say that I do all the hard part of welding the receivers to your car and fabricating door bars, and I'm doing it for $400 because it is far more involved than the bolt on pieces that anyone else sells (which is the best part and the worst part of it..).
Now you're at $1050 for just the rollbar and the door bars, which is case you have an NA that means that you got your installation for FREE at my asking price, and if you have an NB you pay only $200 for an installation (more complicated) which is less than any shop will charge you for it.

How is this unreasonable?

Moti
 

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Not trying to sound like a BFW (Blackbird Fabworx) fan-boy here, but I get tired of people who don't understand how different BFW door bars are compared to some of the other versions on the market. Also, those who think this is not a good deal haven't added up the true costs of getting a similar setup as what is being sold here.

Just from my own observation, BFW door bars are far superior to any of the others on the market. It's that simple. You can't compare a $300 door bar from Boss Frog or Hard Dog to a BFW door bar.

I just looked up Boss Frog's (BF) "frog rib" door bar...
-BF bar bolts to the roll bar's main hoop mounting point with only two bolts. BFW door bars are welded to the roll bar, making the door bars part of the "skeleton" of the car if you will.
-BF bar is 1" diameter tubing with a web between it to stiffen it - provides stiffness in literally only one exact direction, but the problem I see is that the chassis flexes in 3-dimensions, not just linearly on one axis. BFW door bar is not a small flimsy tube.
-BF door bar mounts to the 16-gauge (thin!) sheet metal of the floor. That floor will flex, reducing the benefits of the door bar. The BFW door bar first of all mounts to the rocker, where there is rigidity, but more even than that, Moti welds a reinforced mounting point onto the rocker for the door bar to mount to. Result: door bar actually becomes structural with beefed up mounting point.


-Ryan
 

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It isn't a bad price especially since it is being installed it just sucks it is limited to SoCal. That would be one long drive from Ga to get a roll bar.
GLWS
 

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Roll Bar God
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This is why I said that the design of my door bars is the best and worst part about them.

On the one hand, there's finally a properly designed door bar that does a great deal in reinforcing the chassis by being mounted to the rocker where all the strength of the chassis comes from, unlike any other door bar that is bolted to the paper thin floor.

On the other hand, the design requires the car to be here for the purpose of welding the receivers to the rockers because there isn't a mounting point over there, otherwise everyone would have done it already...

So there's the dilemma, do you compromise for an inferior product for the purpose of sticking it in a box and sending it everywhere or do you design a superior product that performs better than anything else but significantly lowers the amount of sales because of it?
Seems like every other rollbar manufacturer in the miata world went the other way, I thought I'll take the high road.
But it might not be apprecaited by many and I might be wrong doing things that way.
[/rant]

Back to sales, who wants it? :lol:

Moti
 

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Official Armchair Racer
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Feel free to ignore/have my comment deleted. This is the business student inside me speaking up. I feel as though you are trying to sell two clashing products together.

Here's why:

Door bars: Likely something a Miata owner with recreational motorsport intentions would purchase
Double Hoop roll bars: An item that in my observation is purchased for roll over protection while looking "roadstery" and vintage on the street. Very infrequently seen at track days or autox's in my experience.

No doubt your craftsmanship is fantastic, Moti, but if you are looking to unload that BF bar to free up some cash for your track build on the NB sell it alone and it will sell fast.

Glws and keep posting your work. It's very beautiful.
 

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Roll Bar God
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Norman, I hardly disagree with you, Blackbird Fabworx is definitely geared more towards the track guys than the show guys.

The reasons this is offered for sale with door bars are -
* I've been asked about offering a similar product in the past
* At the end of the day it does make more money to sell it with door bars (and you're right, it's going into the NB)

Jayteessy, more info is required, I'll send you a PM.

Moti
 

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Moti, I was check between work stuff and didn't realize that this was on for sale area. My apologies for bring it up something that didn't need to be discussed here. I've seen your work, and I'm sure it'll be worth it. I'll check with the wife to see if she agrees to it. No promises, though...
 

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I'll just throw this out there since I've been thinking about this thread.. sorry, if I am derailing the thread, just let me know Moti.

stormin'norman, you point out that the BF double hoop doesn't make a lot of sense with door bars, but I think it's actually quite the opposite:

A 4-point bolt-in roll bar of any type is first and foremost a roll-over protection device. Everyone says it also helps with chassis rigidity, but while it does help, a bolt-in 4 point reallllly doesn't make a massive amount of difference because that area in question - the rear section of the car - is pretty well boxed in already.

The BF double-hoop bar serves the main purpose of providing the roll-over protection, while having a very unique style which really appeals to some people over the look of a single main hoop bar (I for one really like the look of the double hoop). Comparing this double-hoop to a similar BF single hoop roll bar that is also a bolt-in, I doubt there's that big of a difference in the rigidity provided to the rear of the car.

The main place that our cars (and any convertible) suffer in the rigidity dept. is the mid-section of the car, due to the lack of the roof. For this reason, a proper door bar like the BFW one can fix the one largest weak point in the car.

You said you felt it doesn't make sense to pair a street bar with a motorsport-oriented door bar, but I don't think the door bar is really a motorsport-only modification. How many street driven cars spend loads of $$$ on things like frog arms, butterfly braces etc.? (A lot more $$ than a BFW door bar costs in fact). This tells me that there are many out there who even just use their miatas for street enjoyment who want to solve the "problem" of the convertible and improve the feel of the car - but while butterfly braces and the like are band-aids to the problem, a door bar actually solves it altogether. I think the biggest reason everyone flocks to things like the frog arms and butterfly braces is more a factor of good advertising by the manufacturers of such parts and lack of knowledge on the consumer's part. As more people experience the door bars, drive a friend's car with door bars, etc. I think we will see a shift away from the band-aids and towards the door bars by the street driving community, it is only a matter of time.

Based on all this, I think that such a combo - the double hoop paired with door bars - is actually the perfect combo for the owner of a street miata who values both performance and aesthetics - who wants the awesome Shelby Cobra-esque double hoop design and who also wants an all-in-one solution to the weakness in the miata's chassis.

My car obviously doesn't fit such a criteria, or I'd have bought it myself already ;)

-Ryan
 

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99 old busted HOTTNESS
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I bought the double hoop bf for the fact its actually a 6 point bar and the fact I can still drip my top and raise it with ease.
 
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